jckinsman Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 Just curious after reading the huge thread on the "feminist movement" and all the talk about roles and such,just wondering where you stand on the subject. My opinion is that birth control helped the feminist movement, and that movement has in turn lost what it is to be a woman,thus throwing the family out with it. Destroying the very thing that God had intended to be Sacred and Holy. Let the battle begin!
KnightofChrist Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 (edited) Gospel According to Saint Luke Chapter 23:28-29 28 But Jesus turning to them, said: Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not over me; but weep for yourselves, and for your children. 29 For behold, the days shall come, wherein they will say: Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that have not borne, and the paps that have not given s[color="#000000"]u[/color]ck. Edited January 6, 2009 by KnightofChrist
KnightofChrist Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 [quote name='Arpy' post='1744618' date='Jan 6 2009, 07:02 PM']Oh dear. The autocensor...Heh.[/quote] Fixed.
HisChildForever Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 [quote name='jckinsman' post='1744601' date='Jan 6 2009, 05:50 PM']My opinion is that birth control helped the feminist movement, and that movement has in turn lost what it is to be a woman,thus throwing the family out with it.[/quote] Real feminism is about equality (and being proud to be a woman), not superiority or domination or anti-men.
cmotherofpirl Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1744860' date='Jan 6 2009, 11:46 PM']Real feminism is about equality (and being proud to be a woman), not superiority or domination or anti-men.[/quote] Doesn't this depend on how you define equality?
dominicansoul Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 birth control has not helped anyone... ...ironically, it has given birth to all the ills of society and how men and women view each other....
HisChildForever Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1744862' date='Jan 6 2009, 10:47 PM']Doesn't this depend on how you define equality?[/quote] As the phrase goes, "equal with different roles." I am speaking of equal opportunity anyway. You know, the reason why feminism was born.
Hassan Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1744867' date='Jan 6 2009, 11:50 PM']As the phrase goes, "equal with different roles." I am speaking of equal opportunity anyway. You know, the reason why feminism was born.[/quote] I don't understand this. To say something is "equal but different" is logically incoherent. If it is equal then, by the definition of the word, it cannot be different. The principals of indiscernibles as expressed in second order logic is very clear. For all 'x' and all 'y' if 'x' is equal to 'y' then for all predicates 'P', 'P' is a predicate of 'x' if and only if 'P' is a predicate of 'y'. Notationally expressed as (x)(y)[(x=y)-->(P)(Px<--->Py)]
HisChildForever Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1744876' date='Jan 6 2009, 11:02 PM']I don't understand this. To say something is "equal but different" is logically incoherent. If it is equal then, by the definition of the word, it cannot be different. The principals of indiscernibles as expressed in second order logic is very clear. For all 'x' and all 'y' if 'x' is equal to 'y' then for all predicates 'P', 'P' is a predicate of 'x' if and only if 'P' is a predicate of 'y'. Notationally expressed as (x)(y)[(x=y)-->(P)(Px<--->Py)][/quote] The Church teaches that men and women are equal (equal persons ; equal in dignity ; etc.) but that women are generally more prone to nurture and that men are generally more prone to leadership. And there is a distinction between roles within marriage. (As you will see on the other thread.)
Hassan Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1744880' date='Jan 7 2009, 12:06 AM']The Church teaches that men and women are equal (equal persons ; equal in dignity ; etc.) but that women are generally more prone to nurture and that men are generally more prone to leadership. And there is a distinction between roles within marriage. (As you will see on the other thread.)[/quote] I understand that is the claim, but logically it makes no sense as far as I can tell. Simply because something is not equal does not mean it is any more of less valuable though.
Era Might Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1744876' date='Jan 6 2009, 11:02 PM']To say something is "equal but different" is logically incoherent. If it is equal then, by the definition of the word, it cannot be different.[/quote] A dollar bill and 100 pennies are equal amounts of money, yet they are different from each other. One is a bill, the other is a collection of coins.
Snowflake3981 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 I don't know about all of that algebrathat Hassan wrote, math is one of my weaknesses, but I think it's important that women have equal rights as men. I don't think it's fair to discriminate based on sex. However, I am a very strong supporter of feminism in its true form, being feminine. I think women should embrace their abilities and skills as women. God gave women different gifts than he gave men, they tend to be more caring, loving, doting, etc. ("motherly" traits). I've found that great happiness can be found in being feminine. So much of the "feminist movement" is about man-hating, or trying to be like men. I think that is unfortunate since it goes against God's plan for women and the natural tendencies of feminitiy. I have traditional views on marriage and motherhood, but still feel that women should get equal rights in the workplace for example, if that is their desire. But birth control... I have seen a woman on EWTN a few times dicussing the evils of the BCP and how negatively it has affected our culture, women, and relationships. I wish I could remember her name! She is very well educated and has studied the subject extensively. She was brilliant and brought up great points about how the BCP affects human physiology, judgement, and the cultural affects of BCP. She was on The Abundant Life with Johnette Bencovich and also on a show with Scott Hahn taped at Stubenville. Man, I wish I could remember her name!! Anyone know?
Hassan Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 [quote name='Era Might' post='1744888' date='Jan 7 2009, 12:14 AM']A dollar bill and 100 pennies are equal amounts of money, yet they are different from each other. One is a bill, the other is a collection of coins.[/quote] I'll put this on the thread I made.
TotusTuusMaria Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 [quote name='Snowflake3981' post='1744890' date='Jan 7 2009, 01:15 AM']But birth control... I have seen a woman on EWTN a few times dicussing the evils of the BCP and how negatively it has affected our culture, women, and relationships. I wish I could remember her name! She is very well educated and has studied the subject extensively. She was brilliant and brought up great points about how the BCP affects human physiology, judgement, and the cultural affects of BCP. She was on The Abundant Life with Johnette Bencovich and also on a show with Scott Hahn taped at Stubenville. Man, I wish I could remember her name!! Anyone know?[/quote] It would probably be Janet Smith. She is brilliant.
HisChildForever Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 [quote name='Snowflake3981' post='1744890' date='Jan 6 2009, 11:15 PM']or trying to be like men.[/quote] I constantly hear this phrase. Can you explain what a woman who is "trying to be like men" is like?
Hassan Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1744937' date='Jan 7 2009, 12:42 AM']I constantly hear this phrase. Can you explain what a woman who is "trying to be like men" is like?[/quote] I guess trying to imitate qualities the Church assigns to men.
HisChildForever Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1744944' date='Jan 6 2009, 11:50 PM']I guess trying to imitate qualities the Church assigns to men.[/quote] One of those qualities would be leadership. Does this mean a woman should not seek a leadership role in, for example, her profession?
cmotherofpirl Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1744949' date='Jan 7 2009, 12:52 AM']One of those qualities would be leadership. Does this mean a woman should not seek a leadership role in, for example, her profession?[/quote] Do you think an Abbess or Mother Superior doesn't have leadership skills?
Hassan Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1744949' date='Jan 7 2009, 12:52 AM']One of those qualities would be leadership. Does this mean a woman should not seek a leadership role in, for example, her profession?[/quote] St. Paul says women should not authority over men and the Church, being a patriarchal structure seems to follow this. Also in Christendom's history these seems to have been the norm, but I don't know much about history. I’m sure Totus Tous Maria could give a much more nuanced and intelligent answer. So…I ono….that’s what one should take from this
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