cmotherofpirl Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 [url="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dutch-mp-to-be-tried-for-views-on-islam-1488654.html"]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/eu...am-1488654.html[/url]
Hassan Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1759316' date='Jan 23 2009, 02:54 PM'][url="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dutch-mp-to-be-tried-for-views-on-islam-1488654.html"]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/eu...am-1488654.html[/url][/quote] He’s a dangerous charlatan. I’d reject it in the United States but it’s a different country with a different history.
ardillacid Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 Right, free speech should be only an American thing
Hassan Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='notardillacid' post='1759717' date='Jan 23 2009, 09:45 PM']Right, free speech should be only an American thing[/quote] Not even America has an absolute protection of all free speech. Different societies and cultures can make their own judgment about the bounds of free speech they will permit. After that Adolf chap got into power in Germany some societies in Western Europe got kind of uptight about politicians scapegoating and castigating ethnic/religious minorities that threaten the purity of their white, Christian nation. go figure. The United States does not have the same history; we have a different past, a different people, and a different culture from Europe. We have made free speech laws in accord with our own history and culture. If a popular politician uses speech to stigmatize and scapegoat a minority and unleashes the most staggering and horrific genocide the world has even known then we may reconsider.
CatherineM Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 I would have thought after the Van Gogh thing that Islam would have been on the outs in Holland.
Formosus Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1759742' date='Jan 23 2009, 10:12 PM']I would have thought after the Van Gogh thing that Islam would have been on the outs in Holland.[/quote] Not to say that anyone deserves to die, but Van Gogh was a bigot, racist, and pretty much asked for what he got. The Netherlands is a cesspool and the problem of Islam in their nation is only a symptom of the their other problems.
CatherineM Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='Formosus' post='1759866' date='Jan 23 2009, 09:58 PM']The Netherlands is a cesspool and the problem of Islam in their nation is only a symptom of the their other problems.[/quote] That is often the case isn't it. All we often see are the symptoms.
Hassan Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='Formosus' post='1759866' date='Jan 23 2009, 11:58 PM']Not to say that anyone deserves to die, but Van Gogh was a bigot, racist, and pretty much asked for what he got. The Netherlands is a cesspool and the problem of Islam in their nation is only a symptom of the their other problems.[/quote] huh. So your not a fan of the Netherlands?
Saint Therese Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 You're right the situation in Europe is different. European culture is disappearing. I can understand why some would have strong opinions about that.
puellapaschalis Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='Formosus' post='1759866' date='Jan 24 2009, 05:58 AM']Not to say that anyone deserves to die, but Van Gogh was a bigot, racist, and pretty much asked for what he got. The Netherlands is a cesspool and the problem of Islam in their nation is only a symptom of the their other problems.[/quote] Oh SNAP! Thanks! That's what that funny smell is....
Formosus Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1760057' date='Jan 24 2009, 06:36 AM']Oh SNAP! Thanks! That's what that funny smell is.... [/quote] I of course meant no offense to any dutch who find the direction their country has taken to be grossly incorrect.
Madame Vengier Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1759316' date='Jan 23 2009, 02:54 PM'][url="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dutch-mp-to-be-tried-for-views-on-islam-1488654.html"]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/eu...am-1488654.html[/url][/quote] Geert Wilders. I'm a big fan. His film 'Fitna' is brilliant in its simplistic, straightforward statement. I have seen it numerous times. If Muslims were so offended by it, then it's their own religion that offends them. In no place in the film does the filmmaker voice a single comment for or against Islam. He voices no commentary at all. It is simply text straight from the Koran along with images. Anyone who values freedom should support Geert Wilders, a champion of free speech. Shameful and frightening what is happening to him. It can happen to me and to you.
Madame Vengier Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1759742' date='Jan 23 2009, 10:12 PM']I would have thought after the Van Gogh thing that Islam would have been on the outs in Holland.[/quote] It doesn't matter. The whole world is quivering in fear at the very thought--let alone actions--of offending Muslims.
Madame Vengier Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='Formosus' post='1759866' date='Jan 23 2009, 11:58 PM']Not to say that anyone deserves to die, but Van Gogh was a bigot, racist, and pretty much asked for what he got.[/quote] What a shameful thing to say. And where is your proof of these accusations? The man was stabbed to death and decapitated in the street like an animal FOR MAKING A MOVIE. A movie in which he defends women against oppressive Islam. For THAT, he deserved what he got??????????? No one deserves that. But again, I'd like to see the proof for such outlandish accusations.
Hassan Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1760071' date='Jan 24 2009, 08:29 AM']It doesn't matter. The whole world is quivering in fear at the very thought--let alone actions--of offending Muslims.[/quote] Yes Madam V. The whole world is afraid of Islam. Perhapse in your world not everyone's.
Hassan Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='Madame Vengier' post='1760073' date='Jan 24 2009, 08:31 AM']What a shameful thing to say. And where is your proof of these accusations? The man was stabbed to death and decapitated in the street like an animal FOR MAKING A MOVIE. A movie in which he defends women against oppressive Islam. For THAT, he deserved what he got??????????? No one deserves that. But again, I'd like to see the proof for such outlandish accusations.[/quote] You didn't know Theo Van Gogh said racist and anti semetic things? I don't think he deserved to be stabbed like the other guy said but Gogh a real scum ball.
Galloglasses' Alt Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 I've seen Fitna, and it does portray Islam in a less-then-flattering-light, regardless of how anyone feels about that, the MP deserved censure as, of course, he is an elected MP, he isn't supposed to express his opinions or veiws like that. Doubly of course is the fact it could've incited further violence, (despite the movie's purpose was not to incite violence but make people aware of it), I say he deserves the [i][b]criminal charges[/b][/i], as surely being simply asked to step down or forced from Parliament is too softy an approach. Sarcasm
cmotherofpirl Posted January 24, 2009 Author Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1760102' date='Jan 24 2009, 10:25 AM']You didn't know Theo Van Gogh said racist and anti semetic things? I don't think he deserved to be stabbed like the other guy said but Gogh a real scum ball.[/quote] So you are against the principle of free speech?
KnightofChrist Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1760117' date='Jan 24 2009, 11:23 AM']So you are against the principle of free speech?[/quote] In his mind it would seem Liberty of speech is relative.
Hassan Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1760245' date='Jan 24 2009, 02:29 PM']In his mind it would seem Liberty of speech is relative.[/quote] I have presented a brief argument, if there is something wrong with it you are welcome to challenge me.
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