Noel's angel Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 I guess all we can do is have faith in our dearest Pope.
Tinkerlina Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='Noel's angel' post='1760379' date='Jan 24 2009, 06:30 PM']I guess all we can do is have faith in our dearest Pope.[/quote] Yes, definitely. -Katie
doe-jo Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 Deo Gratias!!! Im going to a SSPX mass tomorrow.
Dave Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 But even though the excommunications have been lifted, they're not yet back in full communion. Be careful.
puellapaschalis Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='Dave' post='1760398' date='Jan 25 2009, 01:10 AM']But even though the excommunications have been lifted, they're not yet back in full communion. Be careful.[/quote]
Innocent Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='doe-jo' post='1760390' date='Jan 25 2009, 05:23 AM']Deo Gratias!!! Im going to a SSPX mass tomorrow.[/quote] I was reading on Fr. Z's blog ([url="http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/01/some-thoughts-about-the-sspx-rome-and-unity/#comment-108340"]in his combox comments[/url]) that the situation about attending SSPX masses has not changed.
XIX Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 [quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1760369' date='Jan 24 2009, 05:59 PM']Oh no...how on earth could a person deny the Holocaust? That is shameful. -Katie[/quote] Yo Tink, We don't think the Holocaust happened. Signed, the Flat Earth Society
Tinkerlina Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='XIX' post='1760430' date='Jan 24 2009, 07:59 PM']Yo Tink, We don't think the Holocaust happened. Signed, the Flat Earth Society[/quote] Yeah that's pretty much about how logical it is... but it is far more damaging than believing the earth is flat. -Katie
KnightofChrist Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 Bp Williamson views on the holocaust are his own do not represent the views of SSPX or the Church, according to [url="http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/01/bp-fellay-responds-to-the-swedish-tv-re-bp-williamsons-interview/"]Bp. Fellay[/url]. I should also note, that the Bishops of the SSPX are real Bishops, always have been, only they use to be excommunicated, now they are not. Open criticism of a Bishop is typically not what good Catholics should do, because it does not show respect to his office.
Tinkerlina Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1760445' date='Jan 24 2009, 08:22 PM']Bp Williamson views on the holocaust are his own do not represent the views of SSPX or the Church, according to [url="http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/01/bp-fellay-responds-to-the-swedish-tv-re-bp-williamsons-interview/"]Bp. Fellay[/url]. I should also note, that the Bishops of the SSPX are real Bishops, always have been, only they use to be excommunicated, now they are not. Open criticism of a Bishop is typically not what good Catholics should do, because it does not show respect to his office.[/quote] I will criticize [i]anyone[/i] who would mislead people in such a dangerous way. Even if his views on the holocaust do not represent the SSPX, I think they should try to correct him. Additionally, I don't understand how a person who has been excommunicated can be a bishop. -Katie
KnightofChrist Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1760457' date='Jan 24 2009, 08:32 PM']I will criticize [i]anyone[/i] who would mislead people in such a dangerous way. Even if his views on the holocaust do not represent the SSPX, I think they should try to correct him. Additionally, I don't understand how a person who has been excommunicated can be a bishop. -Katie[/quote] You must still respect their episcopal office. If you read the decree from the Holy See you will notice not even they deny the four Bishops episcopal consecration. (Last sentence of the second paragraph) It was how they went about being consecrated that got them excommunicated, now that has been lifted. Whilst they were always bishops, they now deserve more respect to their office since their excommunications have been lifted. There have been many liberal minded officials in the Church that have said or done far more dangerous things, yet public criticism is typically the wrong way to go about it because it dishonors the office they hold. Here on Phatmass many of the conservative minded folk who have forgotten that, have been reminded by the mods. SSPX may have it's troubles it may have many troubles, but we as catholics must still respect the office the four SSPX Bishops hold.
Tinkerlina Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1760487' date='Jan 24 2009, 09:24 PM']You must still respect their episcopal office. If you read the decree from the Holy See you will notice not even they deny the four Bishops episcopal consecration. (Last sentence of the second paragraph) It was how they went about being consecrated that got them excommunicated, now that has been lifted. Whilst they were always bishops, they now deserve more respect to their office since their excommunications have been lifted. There have been many liberal minded officials in the Church that have said or done far more dangerous things, yet public criticism is typically the wrong way to go about it because it dishonors the office they hold. Here on Phatmass many of the conservative minded folk who have forgotten that, have been reminded by the mods. SSPX may have it's troubles it may have many troubles, but we as catholics must still respect the office the four SSPX Bishops hold.[/quote] Still don't understand how it is possible to be an excommunicated bishop. In any case, I think that anyone, in any walk of life, who is a Holocaust denier and makes their views publically known, should not be surprised when criticism comes his/her way... -Katie
HisChildForever Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1760487' date='Jan 24 2009, 08:24 PM']You must still respect their episcopal office. If you read the decree from the Holy See you will notice not even they deny the four Bishops episcopal consecration. (Last sentence of the second paragraph) It was how they went about being consecrated that got them excommunicated, now that has been lifted. Whilst they were always bishops, they now deserve more respect to their office since their excommunications have been lifted. There have been many liberal minded officials in the Church that have said or done far more dangerous things, yet public criticism is typically the wrong way to go about it because it dishonors the office they hold. Here on Phatmass many of the conservative minded folk who have forgotten that, have been reminded by the mods. SSPX may have it's troubles it may have many troubles, but we as catholics must still respect the office the four SSPX Bishops hold.[/quote] So if one criticizes the individual they are automatically criticizing the office? You can still have respect for the office (i.e. the Presidency) without much appreciating the individual (i.e. the President).
doe-jo Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='Innocent' post='1760421' date='Jan 24 2009, 04:48 PM']I was reading on Fr. Z's blog ([url="http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/01/some-thoughts-about-the-sspx-rome-and-unity/#comment-108340"]in his combox comments[/url]) that the situation about attending SSPX masses has not changed.[/quote] I think he's talking about receiving communion. SSPX masses are valid but illicit. I was just going to go to mass but not receive communion. I can't receive anyway. I have to go to confession . [quote]Points 1 and 3 in our letter of 27 September 2002 to this correspondent are accurately reported. His first question was "Can I fulfill my Sunday obligation by attending a Pius X Mass" and our response was: "1. In the strict sense you may fulfill your Sunday obligation by attending a Mass celebrated by a priest of the Society of St. Pius X." His second question was "Is it a sin for me to attend a Pius X Mass" and we responded stating: "2. We have already told you that we cannot recommend your attendance at such a Mass and have explained the reason why. If your primary reason for attending were to manifest your desire to separate yourself from communion with the Roman Pontiff and those in communion with him, it would be a sin. If your intention is simply to participate in a Mass according to the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin."[/quote] [url="http://www.unavoce.org/articles/2003/perl-011803.htm"]http://www.unavoce.org/articles/2003/perl-011803.htm[/url] [quote]“Concretely, this means that the Masses offered by the priests of the Society of St. Pius X are valid, but illicit, i.e., contrary to Canon Law. The Sacraments of Penance and Matrimony, however, require that the priest enjoys the faculties of the diocese or has proper delegation. Since that is not the case with these priests, these sacraments are invalid. It remains true, however, that, if the faithful are genuinely ignorant that the priests of the Society of St. Pius X do not have proper faculty to absolve, the Church supplies these faculties so that the sacrament is valid (cf. Code of Canon Law, canon 144)[/quote] [url="http://www.summorumpontificum.net/2008/07/q-with-pced-about-sspx-schism-and.html"]http://www.summorumpontificum.net/2008/07/...schism-and.html[/url] So what happens to the SSPX now that their bishops are not excommunicated anymore? Are the priests going to have faculties in dioceses that have SSPX chapels?
doe-jo Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1760494' date='Jan 24 2009, 06:29 PM']Still don't understand how it is possible to be an excommunicated bishop. In any case, I think that anyone, in any walk of life, who is a Holocaust denier and makes their views publically known, should not be surprised when criticism comes his/her way... -Katie[/quote] An excommunicated priest is still a priest. Once a priest always a priest. No difference with bishops.
Tinkerlina Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='doe-jo' post='1760511' date='Jan 24 2009, 09:49 PM']An excommunicated priest is still a priest. Once a priest always a priest. No difference with bishops.[/quote] But if the Church isn't in full communion with the Pope, wouldn't they be rejecting their office? -Katie
Roamin'Catholic Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 Hey lets all just be thankful that world Jewry is up in a tizzy about this whole thing. [i]Generally[/i] when they get upset it means the Catholic church has done something positively Catholic. They've spent 2000 years trying to destroy the Catholicism- their uproar has less to do with Bishop Williamson's nutty views on the Holocaust and more to do with their opposition to any person or group that is committed to promoting orthodox Catholicism.
Tinkerlina Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Roamin'Catholic' post='1760543' date='Jan 24 2009, 10:05 PM']Hey lets all just be thankful that world Jewry is up in a tizzy about this whole thing. [i]Generally[/i] when they get upset it means the Catholic church has done something positively Catholic. They've spent 2000 years trying to destroy the Catholicism their uproar has less to do with Bishop Williamson's nutty views on the Holocaust and more to do with their opposition to any person or group that is committed to promoting orthodox Catholicism.[/quote] That is, um, kind of offensive. I'd be upset if I were them. -Katie Edited January 25, 2009 by Tinkerlina
Dave Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='doe-jo' post='1760510' date='Jan 24 2009, 09:47 PM']So what happens to the SSPX now that their bishops are not excommunicated anymore? Are the priests going to have faculties in dioceses that have SSPX chapels?[/quote] Since SSPX priests are suspended, the suspensions would have to be lifted before faculties could be granted.
Roamin'Catholic Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 [quote name='Tinkerlina' post='1760550' date='Jan 24 2009, 10:08 PM']That is, um, kind of offensive. I'd be upset if I were them. -Katie[/quote] As long as its only kind of offensive, I'm ok with it.
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