Military Service And Christianity

[Mari Therese]

I think that it is honorable. I live in a military town. I know lots of good Catholics who serve God and country. I just don't think that it's a job for everybody.

[Maximilianus]

[url="http://www.catholicmil.org/"]CatholicMil.org[/url]

[Maggyie]

The Vatican is certainly OK with it. At least two prior archbishops of the military diocese, Edwin O'Brien and John O'Connor later went on to very important sees, Baltimore and New York respectively. Cardinal O'Connor as a chaplain even held the rank of rear admiral in the Navy! The pacifist position is an option in our Church but problems arise when people try to make themselves sound like "true" Christians and other "lesser." A good rule is, don't demand from other people what the Pope wouldn't demand!

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1770081' date='Feb 2 2009, 07:08 PM']The Vatican is certainly OK with it. At least two prior archbishops of the military diocese, Edwin O'Brien and John O'Connor later went on to very important sees, Baltimore and New York respectively. Cardinal O'Connor as a chaplain even held the rank of rear admiral in the Navy! The pacifist position is an option in our Church but problems arise when people try to make themselves sound like "true" Christians and other "lesser." A good rule is, don't demand from other people what the Pope wouldn't demand![/quote]

Not to be argumentative, but I would just like to clarify that priests do practice a type of pacifism called principal pacifism, which means as chaplains, they are not armed nor do they practice violence, because of their vocation.

I don't think that this takes away from the main point of what you were saying above, but I just thought I'd throw out the distinction between a priest serving in the military and a combatant soldier.

(Once again, just to be clear, I'm not supporting one side or the other, but I do find the issue interesting. I think that it requires a lot of thought. Early Christians, up until around the time of St. Augustine, practiced absolute pacifism. In the Eastern Church, Christians were allowed to go to war, but when they returned they had to do extreme penance and fast from Holy Communion for three years.... I think the issue is deeper than we often give it credit for and that there are legitimate reasons as to why a Christian may consider any facet of pacifism.)

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Didacus' post='1769935' date='Feb 2 2009, 02:36 PM']But then the immorality stems from the various immoral governments rather than the millitary itself.[/quote]
Wouldn't joining that military be considered formal cooperation in the corrupt government's actions?

[Didacus]

[quote name='Mari Therese' post='1769994' date='Feb 2 2009, 06:13 PM']I think that it is honorable. I live in a military town. I know lots of good Catholics who serve God and country. I just don't think that it's a job for everybody.[/quote]

My son's school has the motto;

[i][b]Deus et Patria[/b][/i]



I actually explained to my son what that really met.

[Didacus]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1770686' date='Feb 3 2009, 01:21 AM']Wouldn't joining that military be considered formal cooperation in the corrupt government's actions?[/quote]

I think intent would play a role in this scenario. What if the soldier's intent was to fight the evils 'from within'?


Paying taxes to such a government would be cooperation as well correct?

[Giolla]

There are chaplains(Priests) who are soldiers as well. They don't think the two jobs conflict or else they wouldn't do it.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1770686' date='Feb 3 2009, 01:21 AM']Wouldn't joining that military be considered formal cooperation in the corrupt government's actions?[/quote]
What about places where military service is compulsory?

[cmotherofpirl]

The love and service of one’s country follow from the duty of gratitude and belong to the order of charity. CCC ¶2239
Those who are sworn to serve their country in the armed forces are servants of the security and freedom of nations. If they carry out their duty honorably, they truly contribute to the common good of the nation and the maintenance of peace.” CCC ¶2310

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Didacus' post='1770874' date='Feb 3 2009, 06:12 AM']I think intent would play a role in this scenario. What if the soldier's intent was to fight the evils 'from within'?


Paying taxes to such a government would be cooperation as well correct?[/quote]
You know as well as I do that paying taxes is a different situation.

If you were obligated by law to join the military of a corrupt nation, then it would be on the same level, and like you said, joining to fight it from the inside would be ok, but if you voluntarily joined with the intention of fighting for your corrupt country, I think you can call that formal cooperation. No one forced you to join, your informed conscience would tell you that this country is likely involved or going to be involved in grossly unjust wars, and you would be assisting them in doing it.

[Wolf]

Some really interesting and thought-provoking replies to this topic!

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='Didacus' post='1770874' date='Feb 3 2009, 08:12 AM']I think intent would play a role in this scenario. What if the soldier's intent was to fight the evils 'from within'?


Paying taxes to such a government would be cooperation as well correct?[/quote]

You're correct in saying the 'right intent' is essential when looking at both whether a war is just and whether or not a soldier's cooperation in that war is just.

Since, in this particular scenario, we are talking about cooperation in evil actions, we should towards what is commonly called "The Principle of Double Effect" in Just War Theory. (This is originated in St. Thomas Aquinas.)

The Principle of Double Effect deals with the situation in which a decision will have two effects-- one good, one bad. There are four conditions to this principle:

a. The action must be good in itself. (For example, an intrinsically evil action, like abortion, is never permissible, even if it has a good effect, because abortion is always evil in itself.)

b. Right intention. (One must will the good thing and not the bad thing, even though the bad thing may happen as a consequence of pursuing the good thing.)

c. Proportionality. (The good effect must come directly from the action, a good cannot come from the bad action. The end does not justify the means.)

d. Justified action. (One cannot commit an action that the evil effect is greater than the good.)

Now, as to your first objection, concerning a soldier presummedly fighting in an unjust war trying to good from the inside. I would argue that the soldier certainly has right intention-- his intent is to do good. But he is violating a and c. The action itself is not good (fighting in an unjust war) and the end does not justify the means.

As to your second objection, concerning a citizen paying taxes that supports an evil cause.. I would argue that the citizen is still acting justly. Paying taxes is a good in and of itself and the citizen (presumedly) is [b]not[/b] paying taxes with the intent of supporting an evil cause.

[Wolf]

I've always been interested in this career and I still feel it could be the way for me.

[Maximilianus]

[quote name='Wolf' post='1774562' date='Feb 7 2009, 08:49 AM']I've always been interested in this career and I still feel it could be the way for me.[/quote]

Try out for the USMC.
"We'd promise you sleep deprivation, mental torment, and muscles so sore
you'll puke, but we don't like to sugar-coat things."