Does A State Have The Right To Enact Safety Belt Laws?

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
just wondering what you all think. does a state have the legal right to enact safety belt laws? or (as in the case of California, i think) does it have the right to say you cannot smoke in your own car (if there is a minor in your car)? or cell phone laws - they call it driving while distracted, but fail to recognize that having passengers in your car also leads to 'distracted driving'.

[ardillacid]

No.

[T-Bone _]

Yes, to all, on public roads. If you're in a store parking lot, then no.

[ardillacid]

Motorcycles should be banned then. If I'm riding my bro's bike and get hit I'm screwed no matter how you slice it. WAY more dangerous than not wearing a belt in a car.

Edited February 3, 2009 by notardillacid

[Lil Red]

[quote name='notardillacid' post='1771282' date='Feb 3 2009, 01:41 PM']No.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
why do you say this?

[Veridicus]

Of course. The human body becomes nothing more than a large momentum object during an accident. It is for everyone else's protection that your body not fly through the windshield of your car and damage any more public or personal property. I think seatbelt mandates are perfectly fair. If you don't like it then don't wear one and just hope you don't get caught. It's not like people follow traffic laws religiously anyway. If you have a brain and care then it won't bother you to buckle up as the law suggests.

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1771251' date='Feb 3 2009, 04:10 PM']+J.M.J.+
just wondering what you all think. does a state have the legal right to enact safety belt laws? or (as in the case of California, i think) does it have the right to say you cannot smoke in your own car (if there is a minor in your car)? or cell phone laws - they call it driving while distracted, but fail to recognize that having passengers in your car also leads to 'distracted driving'.[/quote]
Your right to go flying through your windscreen / shield ends where I have to pick up the bill for your medical care, either through my tax dollars or through higher insurance premiums.

[Winchester]

The state builds the roads, supplies the emergency response to the accidents and has a responsibility to get those roads moving as quickly as possible. Scraping your ravaged corpse from the freeway after the death investigation delays that.

Motorcyclists should be required to wear full leathers and a helmet, to minimize the bloody mess when they wipe out, but it is the nature of the vehicle that the rider may be thrown.

I think it's been proven enough that cigarettes are a health hazard. They shouldn't be used around kids, but I have to say I'm not sure how far to go with that one.

Cell phone usage. I probably drive better while talking on the cell phone than most people do when they're not on one. Fact is, I don't think the majority of people should be granted licenses in the first place.

[cmotherofpirl]

[url="http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090204/D964NSAG0.html"]http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090204/D964NSAG0.html[/url]

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1771869' date='Feb 4 2009, 10:58 AM']...

Cell phone usage. I probably drive better while talking on the cell phone than most people do when they're not on one. Fact is, I don't think the majority of people should be granted licenses in the first place.[/quote]

Je suis d'accord.

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[alixr]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1771834' date='Feb 4 2009, 10:43 AM']Your right to go flying through your windscreen / shield ends where I have to pick up the bill for your medical care, either through my tax dollars or through higher insurance premiums.[/quote]


By extrapolation then, it should be against the law for a person to do anything unhealthy? Eat certain foods, smoke, drink, not go to the dentist regularly, go out in the cold without being dressed in a pre-specified type of clothing to ward off colds . . . anything that might make someone sick and drive up insurance premiums? You cannot begin infringing on personal freedoms like that or there will be nowhere to stop. It's your life, it's your choice; you do not infringe upon the life or liberty of others by not wearing a seatbelt; the state should not have the power to enforce this law.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='alixr' post='1773797' date='Feb 6 2009, 11:26 AM']By extrapolation then, it should be against the law for a person to do anything unhealthy? Eat certain foods, smoke, drink, not go to the dentist regularly, go out in the cold without being dressed in a pre-specified type of clothing to ward off colds . . . anything that might make someone sick and drive up insurance premiums? You cannot begin infringing on personal freedoms like that or there will be nowhere to stop. It's your life, it's your choice; you do not infringe upon the life or liberty of others by not wearing a seatbelt; the state should not have the power to enforce this law.[/quote]

Wait. its all coming ...
Thats why trans fat is being outlawed, cigerattes have high taxes, smoking isn't allowed in many buildings, seatbelts are mandatory etc.

a] people do stupid things, so government has to save them
b] it saves taxpayers money
c] liberty is a nebulous word, you can kill babies and old people, but can't litter

[Lil Red]

+J.M.J.+
[quote]“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their consciences.” –C.S. Lewis”[/quote]

[alixr]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1773801' date='Feb 6 2009, 11:41 AM']Wait. its all coming ...
Thats why trans fat is being outlawed, cigerattes have high taxes, smoking isn't allowed in many buildings, seatbelts are mandatory etc.

a] people do stupid things, so government has to save them
b] it saves taxpayers money
c] liberty is a nebulous word, you can kill babies and old people, but can't litter[/quote]


I realize that these things are trying to be regulated, but I don't believe that it is just. Yes, people do stupid things, but as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others, it is their choice and not the government's place to "save" people who may not want to be saved. Liberty is nebulous and it's very tricky. If you start to infringe upon it with little things, where does it end?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='alixr' post='1773884' date='Feb 6 2009, 01:50 PM']I realize that these things are trying to be regulated, but I don't believe that it is just. Yes, people do stupid things, but as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others, it is their choice and not the government's place to "save" people who may not want to be saved. Liberty is nebulous and it's very tricky. If you start to infringe upon it with little things, where does it end?[/quote]

Smoking infringes on the rights of others to breathe clean air.
Not wearing selt belts infringes on your kid's right to have a parent if you die because you were too stupid to wear one.
Not wearing a bike helmet does the same. . .

[ardillacid]

[quote name='alixr' post='1773797' date='Feb 6 2009, 10:26 AM']By extrapolation then, it should be against the law for a person to do anything unhealthy? Eat certain foods, smoke, drink, not go to the dentist regularly, go out in the cold without being dressed in a pre-specified type of clothing to ward off colds . . . anything that might make someone sick and drive up insurance premiums? You cannot begin infringing on personal freedoms like that or there will be nowhere to stop. It's your life, it's your choice; you do not infringe upon the life or liberty of others by not wearing a seatbelt; the state should not have the power to enforce this law.[/quote]
Exactamente.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1773903' date='Feb 6 2009, 01:08 PM']Smoking infringes on the rights of others to breathe clean air.[/quote]
You driving a car infringes on my right to breathe clean air. Your use of electricity (most from coal powered plants) is infringing on my right to breathe clean air.

Ridiculous.

[alixr]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1773903' date='Feb 6 2009, 02:08 PM']Smoking infringes on the rights of others to breathe clean air.
Not wearing selt belts infringes on your kid's right to have a parent if you die because you were too stupid to wear one.
Not wearing a bike helmet does the same. . .[/quote]


I do agree with the smoking issue; you don't have a right to make others breathe your smoke and suffer from your habit. But again, if you enforce seatbelt wearing to protect your child's right to a parent, then you have to have a law regarding every other aspect of your life which might infringe upon your health. It just gets to be ridiculous and your every movement would be monitored. Besides which, a right to a parent? You can't claim that is a child's right. If so, what about a child who's mother gets pregnant again and dies in childbirth? The child would then be able to sue their father for bringing about the death of the mother by impregnating her and therefore violating their right to have a mother.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='alixr' post='1773925' date='Feb 6 2009, 02:22 PM']I do agree with the smoking issue; you don't have a right to make others breathe your smoke and suffer from your habit. But again, if you enforce seatbelt wearing to protect your child's right to a parent, then you have to have a law regarding every other aspect of your life which might infringe upon your health. It just gets to be ridiculous and your every movement would be monitored. Besides which, a right to a parent? You can't claim that is a child's right. If so, what about a child who's mother gets pregnant again and dies in childbirth? The child would then be able to sue their father for bringing about the death of the mother by impregnating her and therefore violating their right to have a mother.[/quote]
Rights carry corresponding responsibilties.
Your right to swing your fist ends where someones face begins.

[alixr]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1773937' date='Feb 6 2009, 02:32 PM']Rights carry corresponding responsibilties.
Your right to swing your fist ends where someones face begins.[/quote]


Correct. I do not believe someone's face begins in a person's car with them buckling or not buckling their seatbelt.