Icons

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='17 September 2009 - 12:33 AM' timestamp='1253169188' post='1967983']
That's fascinating, Apotheoun... I had no idea there was such a proper way of reverencing an icon. What about representations of an icon? Like an image of one, but not the original.
[/quote]
Although a replica is not a true icon it should be treated with some degree of respect.

In fact, I remember reading a letter from a Greek Orthodox Bishop in which he told the parishes under his care not to put full color replicas of icons on letterhead and other things of like that, because they will be thrown away, and that kind of treatment is disrespectful to the saint (or the sacred event) depicted in the image.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='17 September 2009 - 12:59 AM' timestamp='1253170782' post='1967984']


"Moreover, that the images of Christ, of the Virgin Mother of God, and of the other saints, are to be had and retained particularly in temples, and that due honour and veneration are to be given them; [b]not that any divinity, or virtue, is believed to be in them[/b], on account of which they are to be worshipped; or that anything is to be asked of them; or, that trust is to be reposed in images, as was of old done by the Gentiles who placed their hope in idols; but because the honour which is shown them is referred to the prototypes which those images represent; in such wise that by the images which we kiss, and before which we uncover the head, and prostrate ourselves, we adore Christ; and we venerate the saints, whose similitude they bear: as, by the decrees of Councils, and especially of the second Synod of Nicaea, has been defined against the opponents of images." (The Ecumenical Council of Trent: Denzinger-Schonmetzer 1823, emphasis added)
[/quote]
Thanks for the quotation . . . as you know I do not agree with teaching on relics and icons espoused at that Latin Church synod.

[Apotheoun]

The following text, which is taken from Fr. Casimir Kucharek's book [u]The Byzantine-Slav Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom[/u] (pages 228-230), touches upon the Eastern Catholic / Eastern Orthodox doctrine of sacred icons:



[size="3"]There is a fundamental difference between Byzantines and Westerners in the interpretation of sacred images. The latter merely regard them as representations of one whose presence is elsewhere, in heaven. For the Byzantine Christian, the icon is a veritable theophany, a dynamic manifestation of divine energy at work on earth. The person represented is in some spiritual way actually present in the icon. From this presence flow streams of grace upon the sinful world, purifying and sanctifying it.

How [does one] explain this mysterious presence in the icon? To define this presence would be as difficult as explaining the [i]Shekinah[/i] or the mysterious presence of Christ amid two or three gathered together in His name (Matt. 18:20). Yet such a presence was no less true. The mystical teaching concerning icons stems from the master idea of all Eastern typology, the idea of the Church building as "Heaven on earth." Gregory of Nyssa was probably the first to set out the main lines of such teaching. His doctrine was taken up and developed by others. The author of the eighth-century [i]Rerum Ecclesiasticarum Contemplatio[/i], for example, expresses it boldly: "The heaven wherein the Triune God lives and moves on earth is the Christian holy place, the Church. . . ." The presence of heaven passed easily from the Church to the icon.

The West never understood the iconoclastic controversy. It did not see the veneration of icons as a dogmatic matter but simply as a disciplinary matter. The Byzantine East, on the other hand, saw clearly in the decision of the seventh general council a contribution toward a better understanding of the mystery of the Incarnation or, more precisely, the mystery of God's communication of Himself to the world and to man in particular. That is why iconography was always such a serious science. It was never merely an art form. To be worthy of the task, the ancient icon painters prayed and fasted for days before taking up their brush – only then could they communicate the Divine through their image-making. Because icons represent human forms that have been "regenerated into eternity," holy bodies of persons transformed, transfigured by grace in prayer, iconographers attempted to convey theological meanings through symbolical colors and forms. Saints, for example, are represented facing forward so that their entire face is showing, for a spiritual man cannot be incomplete, with one eye only. "A soul that has been illuminated by divine glory," teaches Macarius the Great, "becomes all light and all face. . . and has no part with that which is behind but stands altogether facing forward."[/size]

Edited September 17, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='17 September 2009 - 02:07 AM' timestamp='1253171255' post='1967986']
Thanks for the quotation . . . as you know I do not agree with teaching on relics and icons espoused at that Latin Church synod.
[/quote]

The Council of Trent was an Ecumenical Council of the Universal Church, not just a Latin Church synod.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='17 September 2009 - 02:28 AM' timestamp='1253176091' post='1967989']
The Council of Trent was an Ecumenical Council of the Universal Church, not just a Latin Church synod.
[/quote]
We are -- as usual -- not in agreement.

[Apotheoun]

Another excellent book on icons:

[url="http://books.google.com/books?id=NMKZoy6EJfcC&dq=the+mystical+language+of+icons&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=versI-Gh6K&sig=t6lfVtzJqB7yEiDdAvVhBwXHpIQ&hl=en&ei=PeexSvfMN4GesgOiu5XSDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#v=onepage&q=&f=false"][u]The Mystical Language of Icons[/u][/url]

This book also provides information on how an icon is written.

[Sojourner]

What a fascinating thread. Thanks for all your information, Apo.

One question I don't believe I saw addressed ... are there restrictions on the buying and selling of icons, because of their nature?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Terra Firma' date='17 September 2009 - 08:14 AM' timestamp='1253196875' post='1968033']
What a fascinating thread. Thanks for all your information, Apo.

One question I don't believe I saw addressed ... are there restrictions on the buying and selling of icons, because of their nature?
[/quote]
As I understand it, true icons - i.e., those written according to the strictures of the Church iconographic tradition - are not to be bought and sold for profit. The iconographer, of course, should be paid for his work, but the monies given are held to be a form of alms.

Selling historic icons for profit on the black market is illegal in most countries, and that is right and proper.

Edited September 18, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

Another good book on icons is called:

[u]The Theology of Icons[/u] (2 volumes), by Leonid Ouspensky

[sacredheartandbloodofjesus]

Wow all this info on Icons is very fascinating and enlightening. Thanks Apotheoun.

[Slappo]

Apo, to be in agreement with the Council of Trent could you not say that an Icon is not an image of a saint, but the actual saint itself written into the icon? After all icons are not painted or drawn, but written, and therefore different then images and would not fall under the definition Trent gives on images.

Would this not be correct?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Slappo' date='18 September 2009 - 01:28 PM' timestamp='1253302105' post='1968730']
Apo, to be in agreement with the Council of Trent could you not say that an Icon is not an image of a saint, but the actual saint itself written into the icon? After all icons are not painted or drawn, but written, and therefore different then images and would not fall under the definition Trent gives on images.

Would this not be correct?
[/quote]
The Eastern tradition holds that [i]divinity[/i] (i.e., divine energy) is present in icons, along with the energies of the saint depicted, for the saint's energies and God's energies have come together in synergy, and that is why - after all - the saint is a saint.

Now this doctrine, i.e., that divinity is present in an icon, which then empowers the icon to manifest both God's and the saint's presence, seems to be unknown to the bishops assembled at Trent, and yet this truth was taught by the Holy Fathers, including St. John Damascene and St. Theodore Studite, to name just two particular Fathers, both of whom were major opponents of the iconoclastic heresy.

Nevertheless, if a person can find a way to interpret the Tridentine decrees, without doing violence to the actual texts, in order to make them conform to the Patristic Tradition, I am all for that, but I have not been able to find a way to do that myself. Based upon a reading of the Tridentine texts it does not appear as though the bishops of Trent made a distinction between written icons and images, or icons and "holy pictures."

Edited September 18, 2009 by Apotheoun

[sacredheartandbloodofjesus]

[url="http://fatherstephen.wordpress.com/2009/09/19/to-see-an-icon/"]This world is an Icon[/url]

Very interesting article!

[Apotheoun]

Some additional books that help explain the Eastern Christian theology of icons:

[url="http://books.google.com/books?id=agC0jwPtgC0C&lpg=PP1&dq=Festival%20icons%20for%20the%20Christian%20year&pg=PA58#v=onepage&q&f=false"]Festival Icons for the Church's Year[/url]

[url="http://books.google.com/books?id=C0hpKfC8uM4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=The+Icon+in+the+Life+of+the+Church&hl=en&ei=0BjiS7v_Io2kNYLgqZMD&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false"]The Icon in the Life of the Church[/url]

[Apotheoun]

Another excellent - but rather expensive - book on icons:

[url="http://books.google.com/books?id=9-WCVZHh0VMC&printsec=frontcover&dq=depicting+the+word&hl=en&ei=2zHjS8GGNpDStAOls7W6DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false"]Depicting the Word: Byzantine Iconophile Thought of the Eighth and Ninth Centuries[/url]

[Apotheoun]

[url="http://books.google.com/books?id=YppZakl7uygC&printsec=frontcover&dq=the+resurrection+and+the+icon&cd=1#v=onepage&q&f=false"]The Resurrection and the Icon[/url]

[jeffpugh]

Excellent stuff.

[Apotheoun]

[url="http://books.google.com/books?id=SX27r-7g4fAC&printsec=frontcover&dq=The+icon:+window+on+the+kingdom&cd=1#v=onepage&q&f=false"]The Icon: Window on the Kingdom[/url]

[Apotheoun]

Another wonderful book on icons and their importance in the liturgy:

[url="http://books.google.com/books?id=isWUqKBcb1QC&lpg=PP1&dq=The%20icon%3A%20window%20on%20the%20kingdom&pg=PA152#v=onepage&q&f=false"]Heaven on Earth: Art and the Church in Byzantium[/url]

Various sections of the book can be read at the Google books link above.

[Apotheoun]

Chapter two of the book listed above gives an excellent overview of the doctrine of theosis:

[url="http://books.google.com/books?id=isWUqKBcb1QC&lpg=PP1&dq=The%20icon%3A%20window%20on%20the%20kingdom&pg=PA39#v=onepage&q&f=false"]". . . That Man Might Become God": Central Themes in Byzantine Theology[/url]