Question On 'orthodox' Saints

[Aloysius]

Louiseville, I think you're absolutely 100% wrong about the issue of transubstantiation and even memorization. 'memorization' and other such things were thrown out because a whole bunch of MODERNISTS (who believe in the HERESY of MODERNISM) decided that we needed to throw them out because they didn't fit our modern way of approaching divine truths anymore. they were in error, and their actions have destroyed the faith of millions of peoople in the world. they will have much to answer for on judgement day.

Rome and the magisterium, on their part, have never abandoned distinctive doctrinal ideas and categories such as this and have remained much truer to the faith they recieved than the modernists.

we don't need to abandon Roman or Western theological paradigms which were extremely effective in basically converting the whole world, we need to GO BACK TO THEM. Before they were abandoned on the thesis that modern man would not respond to them, [i]modern man was responding to them![/i]

there's a catechetical crisis connected to a liturgical crisis widespread throughout the Church today; Rome has recognized both crises and her answer is not to abandon the theological patrimony of the West, but rather to return to a continuity with that patrimony because it was rupture with that patrimony which caused the crisis.

we really won't gain a stronger Church by disconnecting with the way the faith was formulated to our fathers... in fact, if we continue down such a road and this includes either modernization or even Easternization, we'll end up destroying the Church even more. the more we Easternize, the more we undermine the authority of the Roman Pontiff in the Roman Church itself... and the more we do that, the more errant liberal (and modernist) bishops will end up breaking apart western Christendom by simply no longer listening to the Pope.

much more is at stake than you think in mere theoretical formulations about doctrines such as transubstantiation.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1787866' date='Feb 22 2009, 02:06 AM']That's where the prevalence of poor discipleship in modern Catholicism has failed the last couple generations. A genuine encounter with Christ is nothing like a warm, fuzzy feeling. Why do you think most Catholics abandoned that practice of memorizing definitions? I think it's because our post-modern society doesn't identify with that approach. It doesn't mean it was wrong for its time or is any less true today, but a different approach is needed today to communicate the same Truth.[/quote]

Do you think you can manufacture a genuine encounter? If you had a genuine encounter without a frame of reference could you identify it as such?
Catholics abandoned definitions in the same manor as public schools did. Instead of teaching facts, it became all experiential and touchy- feely: self-esteem and how we feel about ourselves and not about the actual subject. Never in history has so many people felt so good about themselves being failures. The "different" aproach has been tried in all forms of education for the last forty years with disasterous results. Jesus my best buddy approach, instead of the God the Creator of the Universe.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1788084' date='Feb 22 2009, 09:22 AM']Louiseville, I think you're absolutely 100% wrong about the issue of transubstantiation and even memorization. 'memorization' and other such things were thrown out because a whole bunch of MODERNISTS (who believe in the HERESY of MODERNISM) decided that we needed to throw them out because they didn't fit our modern way of approaching divine truths anymore. they were in error, and their actions have destroyed the faith of millions of peoople in the world. they will have much to answer for on judgement day.[/quote]

Modernism faded around the time of World War II. Post-modernism is the major cultural movement we've been dealing with since the 60s. My question is, why did most Catholics feel disconnected from all these truths they were taught? If we don't address that "why," we're just chasing our own tail and will only attract the same token converts. Catholicism has so much to say in our world today and the only people who even give an ear are Catholics and a few ecumenically-minded Christians. That's a problem.

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1788084' date='Feb 22 2009, 09:22 AM']we don't need to abandon Roman or Western theological paradigms which were extremely effective in basically converting the whole world, we need to GO BACK TO THEM. Before they were abandoned on the thesis that modern man would not respond to them, [i]modern man was responding to them![/i][/quote]

I believe the thesis is post-modernist will not respond, and they obviously aren't.

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1788084' date='Feb 22 2009, 09:22 AM']it was rupture with that patrimony which caused the crisis.[/quote]

And what causes the rupture? Half of Catholics from European origin abandoned their faith in the past two generations. This isn't isolated to Catholicism. Look at Christianity overall, mainline Protestantism, and even Judaism... similar trends are seen across society since the 60s. It's easy to blame a few vocal liberal Catholics, but my question is, why did they choose to be liberal in the first place? What was it about orthodoxy that they rejected?

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1788084' date='Feb 22 2009, 09:22 AM']much more is at stake than you think in mere theoretical formulations about doctrines such as transubstantiation.[/quote]

I wasn't aware that Eastern Catholics and Orthodox thought of the Eucharist in merely theoretical formulations.