Formosus Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 This teaching is nothing but a Latin theology opinion. Not a universal doctrine or Dogma of the faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 [quote name='Formosus' post='1797305' date='Mar 4 2009, 01:26 PM']This teaching is nothing but a Latin theology opinion. Not a universal doctrine or Dogma of the faith.[/quote] That Mary co-redeems is most certainly a universal teaching. Heck, that each Christian plays a role in co-redemption is a universal teaching dating back to St. Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pio Nono Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 JMJ 3/4 - St. Casimir Just so we're all clear... There's no such thing as a "Marian dogma." None of the Church's dogmatic beliefs which mention Mary concern her directly. Mariological questions are always, at their core, Christological ones. My question is how this "dogma" highlights Jesus Christ. In what way does Mary as Co-redemptrix shed light on a major question of our times concerning the Trinity or Jesus Christ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 [quote name='Pio Nono' post='1797464' date='Mar 4 2009, 04:56 PM']JMJ 3/4 - St. Casimir Just so we're all clear... There's no such thing as a "Marian dogma." None of the Church's dogmatic beliefs which mention Mary concern her directly. Mariological questions are always, at their core, Christological ones. My question is how this "dogma" highlights Jesus Christ. In what way does Mary as Co-redemptrix shed light on a major question of our times concerning the Trinity or Jesus Christ?[/quote] That's really the question that needs to be asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 [quote name='Pio Nono' post='1797464' date='Mar 4 2009, 04:56 PM']JMJ 3/4 - St. Casimir Just so we're all clear... There's no such thing as a "Marian dogma." None of the Church's dogmatic beliefs which mention Mary concern her directly. Mariological questions are always, at their core, Christological ones. My question is how this "dogma" highlights Jesus Christ. In what way does Mary as Co-redemptrix shed light on a major question of our times concerning the Trinity or Jesus Christ?[/quote] I think we mentioned somewhere in the previous posts that all dogmas relating to Mary were brought about because of Christological questions. And I think your question is a very valid one. Definitely something to be pondered. But even if it is never proclaimed dogma, it is still a doctrine of the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Pio Nono' post='1797464' date='Mar 4 2009, 03:56 PM']My question is how this "dogma" highlights Jesus Christ. In what way does Mary as Co-redemptrix shed light on a major question of our times concerning the Trinity or Jesus Christ?[/quote] I'm obviously not in any way a theologian, but on the offchance that the blatantly obvious answer is the right one... ...there'd be no redemption at all without the Trinity and Jesus Christ, so if we consider Mary Co-redemptrix, it could be seen as a tangent off the larger, nigh unbelievable truth that we are offered redemption at all. Edited March 5, 2009 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formosus Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 [quote name='Raphael' post='1797419' date='Mar 4 2009, 05:09 PM']That Mary co-redeems is most certainly a universal teaching. Heck, that each Christian plays a role in co-redemption is a universal teaching dating back to St. Paul.[/quote] If that is the case then what is the point of declaring it for one individual, even if this individual is the Theotokos. There are enough Dogmas out there and I see no point in adding another superflurous one. IF we add this fifth marian Dogma, then I propose that John the Bapist be declared Co-redeemer, or St. Photios of Constantinople be declared Co-redeemer as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 [quote name='Formosus' post='1797689' date='Mar 4 2009, 09:47 PM']If that is the case then what is the point of declaring it for one individual, even if this individual is the Theotokos. There are enough Dogmas out there and I see no point in adding another superflurous one. IF we add this fifth marian Dogma, then I propose that John the Bapist be declared Co-redeemer, or St. Photios of Constantinople be declared Co-redeemer as well.[/quote] Because we declare dogmas when they are pertinent to a contemporary heresy. Now, that raises a perfectly valid point...is there any specific heresy or significant pastoral cause to prompt the declaration of Mary as Co-redemptrix? In answer to your second objection, while we are all called to co-redemptive work, there is no better model then the Blessed Virgin. Further the "5th Marian Dogma" would contain more than her role as Co-redemptrix, but also here role as Mediatrix of All Graces (which St. John the Baptist and St. Photios were not) and Advocate (which we are all called to be in a lesser way). So it really fits Mary much better than the other saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pio Nono Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 JMJ 3/5 - First Thursday of Lent [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1797652' date='Mar 4 2009, 10:26 PM']I'm obviously not in any way a theologian, but on the offchance that the blatantly obvious answer is the right one... ...there'd be no redemption at all without the Trinity and Jesus Christ, so if we consider Mary Co-redemptrix, it could be seen as a tangent off the larger, nigh unbelievable truth that we are offered redemption at all.[/quote] True enough, but is this really a contemporary heresy/concern? You've made sense of the proposed dogma, and it makes enough sense, but are we in a situation where it answers a question being posed by contemporary culture/theology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 [quote name='Pio Nono' post='1798254' date='Mar 5 2009, 02:54 PM']JMJ 3/5 - First Thursday of Lent True enough, but is this really a contemporary heresy/concern? You've made sense of the proposed dogma, and it makes enough sense, but are we in a situation where it answers a question being posed by contemporary culture/theology?[/quote] Obviously 'above my pay grade', but could Protestant attacks on the nature of Mary be relevant? Many Catholics as well don't have a very clear understanding of Mary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pio Nono Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 JMJ 3/5 - First Thursday of Lent [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1798262' date='Mar 5 2009, 05:03 PM']Obviously 'above my pay grade', but could Protestant attacks on the nature of Mary be relevant? Many Catholics as well don't have a very clear understanding of Mary.[/quote] I suppose this brings me back to my original point - "Marian" dogmas aren't about Mary, they're about Jesus or the Trinity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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