Mahoney Says Williamson Not A Catholic? -updated

[cmotherofpirl]

Cardinal Mahony bans Holocaust-denier from L.A. archdiocese

LOS ANGELES (AP) — Cardinal Roger Mahony on Tuesday took the unusual step of banning Holocaust-denying British Bishop Richard Williamson from any Roman Catholic church, school or other facility in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles.
"Holocaust deniers like Williamson will find no sympathetic ear or place of refuge in the Catholic Church, of which he is not — and may never become — a member," said a commentary signed jointly by Mahony, head of the nation's largest archdiocese, and two officials of the American Jewish Committee.


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"The cardinal wishes to send a clear signal to the Jewish community that Williamson is not a member or even welcome in the Catholic Church until he renounces his views," said Tod Tamberg, spokesman for the archdiocese.

"The cardinal also wanted to signal that he is in full agreement with the Vatican that Williamson must apologize for and distance himself from his views," he added.

Mahony's measure is the latest repudiation of Williamson since January, when the Vatican announced that his excommunication was being lifted. That same day, Swedish television aired a previously taped interview in which Williamson denied that gas chambers existed and said that 200,000 to 300,000 Jews, not 6 million, perished in Nazi concentration camps.

The ensuing outrage caused Pope Benedict XVI to suspend lifting the excommunication, saying Williamson could only be reconciled with the church if he publicly retracts and apologizes for his Holocaust denial.

The government of Argentina, where Williamson had headed a seminary since 2003, ordered him expelled and prosecutors in Germany, where the interview was taped and where Holocaust denial is a crime, launched a criminal investigation.

Williamson, who is one of four excommunicated members of an ultra-traditionalist Catholic group, the Society of St. Pius X, apologized for offending people, but did not indicate that he had changed his views.

Mahony's ban was contained in a commentary published in the online edition of The Tidings, the archdiocese's newspaper. The cardinal stated that the ban would remain "until he and his group comply fully and unequivocally with the Vatican's directives regarding the Holocaust."

The commentary was also signed by Rabbi Gary Greenebaum, U.S. director of interreligious affairs of the American Jewish Committee, and Seth Brysk, the committee's Los Angeles executive director.

There is no indication that Williamson, who is currently living in Britain, is planning to visit Los Angeles, but the commentary noted that "many religious and civic leaders have used his situation to acknowledge the Holocaust and to affirm its unique and terrible place in history."

The ban resulted from Mahony's meeting two weeks ago with Greenebaum and Brysk.

Greenebaum said he requested the meeting to discuss the Vatican's flip-flopping position on Williamson.

The cardinal took him aback by suggesting the ban, Greenebaum said.

"It took me by surprise a little bit," he said. "It's a very strong, very welcome statement."

Religion experts said Mahony's ban is largely symbolic, but believed to be unprecedented.

"I don't know how it would be enforced," said Philip A. Cunningham, director of the Jewish-Catholic Institute at St. Joseph's University in Philadelphia. "But having positive relations with the Jewish community is important to the cardinal."

Mahony said he plans to visit the Yad Vashem Memorial in Jerusalem this year.

[CatholicCid]

May never become a member? Isn't he already a member via his baptism?

I would like to take this charitably, but really, saying that he might NEVER become a member? How dare the Cardinal. He has no such authority.

The article seems wrong as well. The excommunications WERE lifted. Their lifting was not suspended, were they?

Edited March 4, 2009 by CatholicCid

[ardillacid]

[mortify]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1797475' date='Mar 4 2009, 06:09 PM']"Holocaust deniers like Williamson will find no sympathetic ear or place of refuge in the Catholic Church, of which he is not — and may never become — a member,"[/quote]

Strong language from a Cardinal known for his liberalism and dissent.

[cmotherofpirl]

Williamson is a baptised catholic. Even if you are excommunicated you are still catholic, so I don't see how C. Mahoney can say this?

[KnightofChrist]

This while Mahoney is under federal investigation? [url="http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-mahony29-2009jan29,0,6232753.story"]http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-ma...0,6232753.story[/url]

almost funny...

[filiusInFilio]

maybe if Bp. Williamson gives Mahoney a hug everything will be better

[MithLuin]

A few things here - lifting the excommunications was a [i]step[/i] in reconciling with the Church. Williamson is [i]not[/i] currently a member of the Catholic Church. Yes, he was baptized. I'm not denying that. But can he currently represent himself as a Roman Catholic bishop? No. So, the cardinal is trying to put this in terms that people can understand.

Because most of the rest of everyone is thoroughly confused when they hear this story, don't know what the bishops did to get excommunicated in the first place, and just assume that the bishop is a Catholic like everyone else - it is good for the Cardinal to clarify.

There are some mistakes in the article, but the quotations from the cardinal were correct.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='MithLuin' post='1797506' date='Mar 4 2009, 07:06 PM']A few things here - lifting the excommunications was a [i]step[/i] in reconciling with the Church. Williamson is [i]not[/i] currently a member of the Catholic Church. Yes, he was baptized. I'm not denying that. But can he currently represent himself as a Roman Catholic bishop? No. So, the cardinal is trying to put this in terms that people can understand.

Because most of the rest of everyone is thoroughly confused when they hear this story, don't know what the bishops did to get excommunicated in the first place, and just assume that the bishop is a Catholic like everyone else - it is good for the Cardinal to clarify.

There are some mistakes in the article, but the quotations from the cardinal were correct.[/quote]

What evidence is there that Williamson is [i]not[/i] currently a member of the Catholic Church? His excommunication put him outside the Church, the lifting of the excommunication would not resolve that, and place him back in the Church?

Edited March 4, 2009 by KnightofChrist

[Aloysius]

Bishop Williamson is not only a member of the Catholic Church, he is an ordained Catholic Bishop. His is suspended juridically from exercising the office of bishop, but his status is that of a bishop. His brother bishop, Mahoney, a man I must admit reluctantly is a Cardinal Prince of the Church, has disgraced his office by this outlandish slander against a fellow bishop who is fully united to the Roman Catholic Church. He is fully admitted to the sacraments of confession and the eucharist since his excommunication was lifted; he currently illicitly celebrates mass (though he does not ordain for the society anymore, I believe he does nothing else for the society right now as +Fellay has tried to get him out of the public spotlight)... but honestly, Mahoney himself celebrates illicit masses all the time with the amount of abuses he allows.

[quote]The ensuing outrage caused Pope Benedict XVI to suspend lifting the excommunication, saying Williamson could only be reconciled with the church if he publicly retracts and apologizes for his Holocaust denial.[/quote]
NO such thing was done. This is outrageous. Bishop Williamson is being treated with the most unChristian, unjust, and uncharitable persecutions by people who claim to be Catholics as a result of a mistaken historical opinion which he admits was the opinion of someone who was not an historian but of someone who simply believed evidence presented to him in the '80s and never did more academic research on the subject. the man's guilty of nothing but imprudence; the people slandering him are guilty of FAR WORSE than he is. Do you remember when Our Lord said in the gospels "whoever says to his brother, "you fool", will be liable to the fires of Gehenna"?? guess where it is the criticizers of this bishop are in danger of going? +Williamson's Excommunication was lifted, he was asked to recant his views before possibly having his suspension lifted.

this is unbelievable and outrageous, and many people will have to answer to Our Lord on judgement day for the ordeal they put this bishop of His through.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='filiusInFilio' post='1797503' date='Mar 4 2009, 06:55 PM']maybe if Bp. Williamson gives Mahoney a hug everything will be better[/quote]
There're a couple of things [i]I'd[/i] like to give Roger Cardinal Baloney - i.e., a piece of my mind, a knuckle sandwich, etc., however, a hug is not amongst those.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1797532' date='Mar 4 2009, 07:51 PM']Bishop Williamson is not only a member of the Catholic Church, he is an ordained Catholic Bishop. His is suspended juridically from exercising the office of bishop, but his status is that of a bishop. His brother bishop, Mahoney, a man I reluctantly must admit is a Cardinal Prince of the Church, has disgraced his office by this outlandish slander against a fellow bishop who is fully united to the Roman Catholic Church. He is fully admitted to the sacraments of confession and the eucharist since his excommunication was lifted; he currently illicitly celebrates mass (though he does not ordain for the society anymore, I believe he does nothing else for the society right now as +Fellay has tried to get him out of the public spotlight)... but honestly, Mahoney himself celebrates illicit masses all the time with the amount of abuses he allows.[/quote]
Thats what I thought, hs is still a catholic!

[CatherineM]

Wow, these questions are definitely above my pay grade. Is he a Catholic, is he a bishop, is he a Catholic bishop, can a Cardinal say someone isn't a Catholic? I have no idea. I'm pretty sure he's still a Catholic. Whether he is in good standing or not is another question.

[Maggyie]

The cardinal is not my favorite but I have a hard time believing he would say "he may never become a member." Could it be the intrepid staff of the AP messing things up again?

[Nihil Obstat]

I wonder if any of this article was poorly interpreted and reported on by the American media that has proven time again that they sure know everything about the Catholic Church?