Habits

[Brother Ed]

Greeting Everyone,

As a Religious Brother, I had to respond to this thread.

I am sorry to say, I do not go for lay people wearing the habit in public. I am sorry to say, that yes you can give people the wrong impression. Please leave the habit for those of us who have gone through Postulancy, Novitiate, Temporary Vows and Life Profession. You can say it brings you closer to God. Well, your prayer and your love,devotion and just your witness as a person brings you closer to him. Please do not wear the habit unless you are a member in a Religious Community.

Also for the deacon who wears the collar in public for respect.. sorry that is the wrong reason to wear it. To begin with, most Bishops do not allow for the deacons to wear the collar unless they are in the Prison Ministry. Other than that, they have the deacons cross or pin.
If one wishes respect, one has to respect others as well. It will all come together on its own.

Sorry if I may have hurt someone by this, but I had to say my peace. This Brother is in habit most of the day except at night when I am relaxing.

Blessings to you all,
Bro. Ed

[puellapaschalis]

[quote name='Brother Ed' post='1799185' date='Mar 7 2009, 12:41 AM']Also for the deacon who wears the collar in public for respect.. sorry that is the wrong reason to wear it. To begin with, most Bishops do not allow for the deacons to wear the collar unless they are in the Prison Ministry. Other than that, they have the deacons cross or pin.
If one wishes respect, one has to respect others as well. It will all come together on its own.[/quote]

I won't disagree with you on the habit, but I know plenty of deacons (both permanent - especially those who are unmarried - and transitional) who wear clerics simply because they're deacons and it's appropriate in most situations. Whilst seminarians are or would be permitted to wear clerics, I don't think it's widespread outside Rome.

[shortnun]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1799225' date='Mar 6 2009, 06:08 PM']I won't disagree with you on the habit, but I know plenty of deacons (both permanent - especially those who are unmarried - and transitional) who wear clerics simply because they're deacons and it's appropriate in most situations. Whilst seminarians are or would be permitted to wear clerics, I don't think it's widespread outside Rome.[/quote]
I agree that there's often a difference in practice vs. rules when it comes to seminarians and deacons wearing collars. I know some seminarians who are only allowed to wear cassocks and/or collars while they're on seminary property. I also know deacons who wear grey, white, or pale blue to distinguish themselves from priests.

[truthfinder]

The deacons that have been in my diocese, the transitional ones that is, have always worn their collar and wear black and look just like the priests. They do the same thing in the seminary which is in a different diocese. This is in Canada. We have to remember that deacon is the first part of holy orders, which is then followed by the priesthood, and for some culminates in the bishopric. And, if I'm not mistaken deacons are also required to do the Morning and Evening Prayers.

Edited: for spelling

Edited March 7, 2009 by truthfinder

[kavalamyself]

My priest (and by the way a pastor) blessed my "habit" and approves of my wearing of it. Someone asked which one I wear. I do not wear anything that identifies me as belonging to a particular order. The website that I suggested is very nice and you can have a particular style made with different materials/colors and also you can mix/match on your own. (A scapular in one color as example, a wimple from another.) As an example, you could pick out the Benedictine one and have it made in a light grey material. I am not recommending that you wear a habit of a particular order because then you could be misunderstood as representing that congregation. Also, if you can find someone who sews, you can make your own or sew it yourself. I think if you wear it in a pious fashion and don't do anything weird in it that would bring an upset to the church, nobody should have a problem with it. I called my priest today and asked him if he would check again to make sure there isn't anything against this practice and he said no. It's not for everybody, and maybe some people feel like the habit is a reward for making it through the process of religious life, but for others, it is a a sacramental, something tangible to bring them closer to God and also something to be a witness. But I do know that this does not apply to men, at least in the United States because of the reasons I already said. And thanks, Puella, for the correction. I'm sorry if this is something some of you object to, but until my priest tells me otherwise, I am going to keep wearing it on Sundays and other holy days.

[InHisLove726]

[quote name='kavalamyself' post='1799291' date='Mar 6 2009, 07:19 PM']My priest (and by the way a pastor) blessed my "habit" and approves of my wearing of it. Someone asked which one I wear. I do not wear anything that identifies me as belonging to a particular order. The website that I suggested is very nice and you can have a particular style made with different materials/colors and also you can mix/match on your own. (A scapular in one color as example, a wimple from another.) As an example, you could pick out the Benedictine one and have it made in a light grey material. I am not recommending that you wear a habit of a particular order because then you could be misunderstood as representing that congregation. Also, if you can find someone who sews, you can make your own or sew it yourself. I think if you wear it in a pious fashion and don't do anything weird in it that would bring an upset to the church, nobody should have a problem with it. I called my priest today and asked him if he would check again to make sure there isn't anything against this practice and he said no. It's not for everybody, and maybe some people feel like the habit is a reward for making it through the process of religious life, but for others, it is a a sacramental, something tangible to bring them closer to God and also something to be a witness. But I do know that this does not apply to men, at least in the United States because of the reasons I already said. And thanks, Puella, for the correction. I'm sorry if this is something some of you object to, but until my priest tells me otherwise, I am going to keep wearing it on Sundays and other holy days.[/quote]

To each, his/her own. As long as you aren't breaking any rules, as it appears you aren't, then it isn't illicit, just maybe weird according to some people. May God bless you this Lenten and Easter season!

[Nunsense]

This deacon was not transitional - he was married. But I admit I don't know the rules about deacons. I was told this story by a priest who thought it was weird that this deacon was wearing the collar - but then as I said, the deacon's own priest had no problem with it - so I guess it must have been ok. I just thought the reasoning seemed a little strange. Wearing it to be a witness is good, but just to make the congregation respect him? Well, that's the story I was told, so I was just trying to get clarification, but it does seem there are a lot of different things going on in different places, so who am I to judge what is right? Not my place, that's for sure....

[Nunsense]

This deacon was not transitional - he was married. But I admit I don't know the rules about deacons. I was told this story by a priest who thought it was weird that this deacon was wearing the collar - but then as I said, the deacon's own priest had no problem with it - so I guess it must have been ok. I just thought the reasoning seemed a little strange. Wearing it to be a witness is good, but just to make the congregation respect him? Well, that's the story I was told, so I was just trying to get clarification, but it does seem there are a lot of different things going on in different places, so who am I to judge what is right? Not my place, that's for sure....

[truthfinder]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1799307' date='Mar 6 2009, 06:00 PM']This deacon was not transitional - he was married. But I admit I don't know the rules about deacons. I was told this story by a priest who thought it was weird that this deacon was wearing the collar - but then as I said, the deacon's own priest had no problem with it - so I guess it must have been ok. I just thought the reasoning seemed a little strange. Wearing it to be a witness is good, but just to make the congregation respect him? Well, that's the story I was told, so I was just trying to get clarification, but it does seem there are a lot of different things going on in different places, so who am I to judge what is right? Not my place, that's for sure....[/quote]
Yes, we had a permanent deacon (RIP) but I do not know if he wore a collar. I do not know if they could wear a collar. I believe they could all the time considering that they are deacons. (As Fr. Z says, a deacon's a deacon.) I think it would be weird for a permanent deacon to wear the collar all the time especially just to gain respect. I think it would be more apropriate if he was carrying out some liturgical or church business, but not other times just to get noticed. I do think though that transitional deacons should wear a collar, and a cassock if their bishop or seminary will allow for it (just my opinion on the cassock.) They won't be able to hide so well when they are priests and it allows for practise on encountering people, and to giving witness.

Edited: for spelling

Edited March 7, 2009 by truthfinder

[HisChildForever]

If you are a lay person you should not be wearing the habit. I, for one, would find it terribly misleading- even if the habit is not modeled after a particular order, to the untrained eye it could very well appear legitimate. Also, even if one is not wearing the habit to "pass" as a sister or nun, one HAS to realize that they WILL be confused as a sister or nun - and I idly wonder if being identified as a sister or nun is in some way pleasing to the lay person in habit (at least unconsciously). Furthermore, there is a reason why lay people do not wear habits and why religious do, and that difference should be respected.

[puellapaschalis]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1799553' date='Mar 7 2009, 07:34 AM']Furthermore, there is a reason why lay people do not wear habits and why religious do, and that difference should be respected.[/quote]

This is, I think, an important point. Whilst non-ordained religious are, strictly speaking, lay people, there is a very real consecrational difference between a (non-ordained, for the sake of simplicity) religious and a lay person. A lay person's mission, in the broadest sense, is to imitate Christ, strive for union with Him, all whilst living in the midst of the world. A religious' mission, in the broadest sense, is to imitate Christ, strive for union with Him, all whilst being comitted (avowed) to do so in a very specific way - by imitating the evangelical counsels as closely as possible.

Non-religious lay people are of course also called to imitate Christ, but not to such extremes. A father who embraces Franciscan poverty will ruin his family; a husband who takes up celibacy to the extent that he wishes to be celibate will mess up his marriage; a wife who obeys her husband in exactly the same way as Christ obeyed the Father will come up against the ugly fact that her husband is not God.

Clearly, the life more radically moulded to Christ is more Christ-like than the other, but this is not to say that the other is in any way bad. But mixing the two can lead to misunderstandings and pain (think of the mother whose husband has given away all their savings, leaving the family with nothing; think of the wife whose husband will no longer sleep with her; think of the husband who finds himself burdened with an authority which is not his).

What bearing does this have on the habit? Religious - even active - are for good reasons "set apart" in various ways. They live (generally) together, in buildings set apart for them; they follow a timetable which is quite different to that of most non-religious; [i]and they wear a habit[/i].

Ok, not all of them do (some legitimately, some not), but in general. But does the rest of the world have metal grills or big "Enclosure" signs cordoning off part of their houses? Whilst in some cultures visitors don't usually venture beyond the living/dining room, kitchen and toilet, in others the entire house is, literally, open to guests (and on their first visit they may well expect a guided tour). Do non-religious, as a rule, puncture their day with Mass, at least five Offices, and anything up to two and a half hours of silent personal prayer? Do they call each other (when the relationship is appropriate) Sister and Brother (or is it normally "GIMME BACK MY BOOK ELSE I'LL TELL DAD!")? Do they eat together in relative calm or silence?

Put simply, beyond a certain point the lives of religious and non-religious are wisely kept apart; I think that the wearing of the habit is beyond that point.

Oh yes - my opinion, right

[tnavarro61]

I am also against on laity wearing religious habits. i mentioned it in another discussion here in phatmass but i think this is more appropriate here. I know of one confraternity of young men, and young boys (12 years old, 11, 10..) who proudly wear their "habits". In their website, they refer it as their habits and this is very misleading. they are into religious relics, under the disguise of "promoting the spirituality of the saints". visiting their personal blogs, they seem to treat the religious relics as collections, showing them off to the public, and sometimes treating them as trading cards (like the pokemon cards , you know).

going back to the habit, i think i saw one member wearing an all-white tunic with a franciscan belt in one of the religious professions in my spiritual director's community which is Carmelite. so people might think he;s a religious and that's a cruel deception.

children come to him and ask for his blessings. i find it very awful. children are asking for his blessing because they might be thinking that he's a religious brother, but the fact is he isn;t/

so i think the laity must retain their (our) hiddeness of our "consecration" to God, our humility.

[DameAgnes]

Well, I hate to seem unkind but I am not sure a priest (even if he is a pastor) has the authority to tell someone it's okay for them to wear a habit. A bishop, that's a different thing. A bishop could certainly give credible permission and reassurance.

Frankly, and I do not mean to wound but say this in charity, unless the lay person is a "promesa" (someone who has permission from a bishop to wear the habit for a period of time as an expression of penance or thanksgiving) I think it indicates a presumption, and perhaps a neurosis on the part of the wearer. It cannot help but be conspicuous (look at me!) and it has an element of playacting to it, and can have the harmful effect of diluting the meaning of a habit in the life of vowed religious.

I am very much against this, and would suggest to anyone who is tempted to wear a habit - even "to mass only" - while not actively a member of a religious order, or someone who has been approved by the bishop as a consecrated person, hermit, anchoress, etc.

I can't tell you how much I hate the idea of lay Catholics order a "habit" from a medieval costumer online and then going to mass dressed this way. It seems unhealthy to me.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='DameAgnes' post='1799836' date='Mar 7 2009, 01:51 PM']Well, I hate to seem unkind but I am not sure a priest (even if he is a pastor) has the authority to tell someone it's okay for them to wear a habit. A bishop, that's a different thing. A bishop could certainly give credible permission and reassurance.[/quote]

I agree that just asking a priest doesn't seem sufficient - but I think the problem could be solved quite easily.

Anyone who wants to wear a habit, who is not in a religious community, should first check with their Bishop. If he gives permission, then I guess it is ok while living in that Diocese. If he says no, then the question is answered!

[AVE_MARIA]

I'm from Germany (Bavaria to be exact). And in Germany it is by state law forbidden to wear a habit or collar in public if you're not a religious or priest (I'm not quite sure about deacons and seminarians)

A habit or collar is seen as a sort of uniform (like police, firefighters and so on wear...) and if you're not what your dress is representing it is illegal. Like some of you alredy said it is misleading to the people and you could harm real religious and priests.

That beeing said i personaly don't think it is a sin to wear one (except maybe if you wear it to get attention and respect that sounds kind of vain to me) but i don't want to judge or hurt somebody it's up to everyones conscience as long as the church or state don't forbidde it.
BUT i don't approve wearing a habit if you'r not a religious. Out of respect for religiouse you shouldn't do so. If your dressing simple, plain and modestly and your mistaken for a religiouse or postulant thats one thing but purposely dressing "up" as one quite another.

[puellapaschalis]

Not quite trivial, not completely on-topic, but possibly interesting fact (which I actually may not be remembering correctly): in England and Wales (not sure about the rest of the UK) it is illegal for Catholic clergy to wear a cassock in public. Left-over from the recusant days.

[Maria Faustina]

I totally agree with what most of you are saying. The habit should not be worn unless you are a member of a religious community. Wearing a large crucifix or Rosary is another thing- and I believe that is totally acceptable. But when you get to the point of wearing an entire habit and you are not a religious or a hermit, that's where a problem is created. I believe it creates a lot of confusion to the people around you and maybe even yourself if you wear a religious habit one day, but the next day you go back to wearing normal clothes. A religious sister's habit is a lot like her wedding dress; it sets her apart from every other Catholic and tells the world that she belongs to Jesus alone. Besides, why would one wear a "wedding dress" if they were not getting "married"? I don't find the practice of normal lay persons wearing religious garb making sense. It's up to you and Jesus if the habit makes you focus on your prayer, however, I don't think it takes special clothes to focus completely on prayer. I'm sure Jesus would rather you come as you are, instead of as something you are not.

[Nunsense]

I guess I wonder what you would say if you were wearing a habit and someone asked what order you belonged to? Do you say "None, I just like wearing the habit?"

The more I think about it, the stranger it seems to wear a habit in public if one is not a member of a religious community! Holiness is in the heart, and Jesus was condemning of those who "cleaned the outside of the bowl and not the inside" so I doubt that He would consider it a good thing to pretend to be a religious when one is not.

I don't mean this to sound uncharitable, but to anyone who is doing this now (wearing a habit in public but not in a religious community), I would just say -- think about it again - maybe it isn't such a great idea after all!

[kavalamyself]

A question was asked, I answered. Since my priest blessed and ok'd this practice for me, I find no reason to go to the Bishop. We have plenty of sisters in our parish and they don't wear a habit! At least someone in our parish is keeping a tradition alive. I think some of the comments, especially regarding personal psychological issues - neurotic ? - are out of bounds. I am not going to say anything more because whatever I will say will just sound defensive. If you don't want to wear a habit, then don't, and I do not present myself as a sister in a community. I am, however a daughter of the Lord, and I try to be a sister in Jesus to all.

[dominicansoul]

I also do not understand a lay person wearing a habit unless he/she is under some type of vow or in a formation program (ie. novice.)

Recently, I was a lay member of a new religious community. The discussion came up that as lay members, we should wear a habit. I was totally against that. I am absolutely opposed to anyone wearing the habit that is not bound in some way to the sacred consecration it implies. In other words, if you are not a novice in a community, or have not made a public vow to God, then you shouldn't be wearing it. I may be wrong, but I thought only a Bishop can give a person the right to wear religious garb. And only then, most Bishops make these kinds of decisions in regard to new religious communities in the stage of "Private Associations of Christ's Faithful" (ie. persons on their way to total consecration, and NOT laity!)

It does give the wrong impression and is deceiving to wear such a garb if you are not under some type of religious formation, or not a religious at all.

I was a Dominican novice once, and I used to "hug" my habit every morning before I put it on. It was extremely precious to me. Wearing it is a HUGE responsibility. I remember more than I can count, my Sisters and I bringing people to tears when they saw us wearing our habits... That's how powerful the habit is! They were not delighted in me, nor did I bring them to tears....the habit was the main reason, not me! The habit takes on it's own importance, even apart from the person wearing it...because of what it symbolizes. I discovered that most of these reactions were based on the fact that people found hope and rejoiced that authentic religious life is making a comeback...

I can still remember some of the comments..."What are you?" "How beautiful!" "Do they still make you wear those? That's great!" "I haven't seen a 'real' sister before!"

I found most people taking delight in the fact that there were young, vibrant religious in existence in the Church today.

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