Why Do We Pray?

[Theologian in Training]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1815512' date='Mar 24 2009, 01:47 PM']I really do think it depends on how you define prayer. Mass? Saying the Hours? Rosary? Litanies?
just having a running conversation with God? All of the above?[/quote]

When you responded, what was it you had in mind? That is what I mean. Each person is different and unique, as this thread has clearly shown, but each person has a concept of prayer in the sense that I am asking because each person has their understanding of what prayer is and was able to respond without a definition. Granted, I may be the one "leading" this thread but the definition, in this sense, is relative to each person insofar as each person approaches God differently, with a wide variety of spiritualities.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1815547' date='Mar 24 2009, 02:47 PM']When you responded, what was it you had in mind? That is what I mean. Each person is different and unique, as this thread has clearly shown, but each person has a concept of prayer in the sense that I am asking because each person has their understanding of what prayer is and was able to respond without a definition. Granted, I may be the one "leading" this thread but the definition, in this sense, is relative to each person insofar as each person approaches God differently, with a wide variety of spiritualities.[/quote]
I this what you want ?
I have said the LOTH since 1974, not every single day - but most days. To me the psalms are a direct link to God, no other prayers connect me like they do.
I find litanies- particularly of the saints connects me to the Communion of Saints and I feel connected to the entire church.
I have difficulties with the rosary - I simply lose track and my mind drifts off or gets lost in a particular part of the prayer -thinking about Mary being our Mother, thy kingdom coming etc.

Did you ever see Fiddler on the Roof - I saw it as a child -well I have always talked to God as Tevye does, not that God needs my opinions, but as a child talks to a parent. Didn't have much parenting as a child, but I always thought Tevye was a nice representation of a good relationship, so I have always used that as my model.

We have the police scanner on all day and I pray for the police and the victims etc as they come across the air. When I read the news I pray for those involved - usually just a plea for God to take care of them.
When I garden, which I love to do, I tell God thank you for each seed that grows, and apologize for the ones that don't - because its His creation that I'm working on, and I feel a sense of responsibility for it. If I'm up at sunrise and its not cold I go outside I thank God for it, the same at sunset.

I have never had all those feelings of love etc people seem to feel for Jesus etc, I don't relate to Him that way, I see Him as a mediator to the Father, and a gift to open heaven for the world. I don't trust great emotions in relating to religion, feelings are transient, but the will remains. I just hope Someones up there is listening.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1815522' date='Mar 24 2009, 11:59 AM']I was asking Father, not other posters hughey, its his thread.[/quote]
lame. lame and rude.

[MIKolbe]

Fr.-

Why do we pray?

To show our love for God. My prayers are either words or actions. I pray to attempt to be in communion with Him, to petition, to thank and praise.

Why are prayers not answered?

I am not sure they are not. They may not be answered to MY liking, but I trust they are answered in His terms, and His ways; according to His will for me.

Before I lost my job, I would pray a prayer of thanksgiving for my job, and ask always for a way to support my family.

I lost my job 2 weeks before Christmas. This would seem like a supreme case of an unanswered prayer. However, since our insurance would run out at the end of the year, I got everyone to the Dr., one last time. It was at that Dr. appointment, the Dr. found Addison's heart murmur (Addison was 6 mos. at the time). She has a hole in her heart that was significantly larger than any of the echos led the Dr. to believe. She had her surgery, and her heart is healthy and she is doing great.

Fr., but for me losing my job, we would not have found this as early as we did. Luckily, Addison's pediatrician is a Neo-Natalogist who has EXTENSIVE experience with ASD (hole in the heart). Addison was not due for another appointment for a few months, and when she was diagosed with it, it was almost an emergency situation. So, I lose my job; we get into the Dr. with relative ease (which with my insurance is not that easy); the Dr. we see specialized in the exact condition my daughter had; my daughter was asymtomatic, yet he detected it anyways; because of the loss of my job, and the type of defect my daughter had, the surgery is paid in full.

My prayer was answered, but according to His will, not mine.



What if you do not want to pray?

Sadly, after all these blessings, this question seems pointed to me. Fr., I do not want to pray right now. I do, but I do not want to. (that probably makes no sense, but is par for the course with me) I am distracted trying to find a job here in CA, wrestling with a prospect to move across the country for another. Wondering self-worth, still, as it pertained to me getting laid off. It sounds self-centered, and you know what Fr.?..it is. I am not praying how I think I should..Not as often as I should..I fall alseep in prayer, I neglect opportunities for prayer (like offering some prayers when doing the dishes, or laundry)... then I get MAD because I forgot. A part of me feels they are not good enough, so rather than offering junk, I just dont want to offer.

When my wife and I were preparing to get married, the priest asked if we went to Mass. I said, 'not like I should'. He said in reply, 'when you are hungry, you'll eat'. It threw me for a loop, but as I reverted back; it made sense. I think prayer is similar.


How important is prayer?

I think prayer is ultimately a communication. How do you not communicate with someone you say you love?


Thank you Fr. for this thread. Not only have I answered your questions, but I think I have answered some of mine too.

Pax,
Jason

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='MIkolbe' post='1815577' date='Mar 24 2009, 01:10 PM']Fr.-

Why do we pray?

To show our love for God. My prayers are either words or actions. I pray to attempt to be in communion with Him, to petition, to thank and praise.

Why are prayers not answered?

I am not sure they are not. They may not be answered to MY liking, but I trust they are answered in His terms, and His ways; according to His will for me.

Before I lost my job, I would pray a prayer of thanksgiving for my job, and ask always for a way to support my family.

I lost my job 2 weeks before Christmas. This would seem like a supreme case of an unanswered prayer. However, since our insurance would run out at the end of the year, I got everyone to the Dr., one last time. It was at that Dr. appointment, the Dr. found Addison's heart murmur (Addison was 6 mos. at the time). She has a hole in her heart that was significantly larger than any of the echos led the Dr. to believe. She had her surgery, and her heart is healthy and she is doing great.

Fr., but for me losing my job, we would not have found this as early as we did. Luckily, Addison's pediatrician is a Neo-Natalogist who has EXTENSIVE experience with ASD (hole in the heart). Addison was not due for another appointment for a few months, and when she was diagosed with it, it was almost an emergency situation. So, I lose my job; we get into the Dr. with relative ease (which with my insurance is not that easy); the Dr. we see specialized in the exact condition my daughter had; my daughter was asymtomatic, yet he detected it anyways; because of the loss of my job, and the type of defect my daughter had, the surgery is paid in full.

My prayer was answered, but according to His will, not mine.



What if you do not want to pray?

Sadly, after all these blessings, this question seems pointed to me. Fr., I do not want to pray right now. I do, but I do not want to. (that probably makes no sense, but is par for the course with me) I am distracted trying to find a job here in CA, wrestling with a prospect to move across the country for another. Wondering self-worth, still, as it pertained to me getting laid off. It sounds self-centered, and you know what Fr.?..it is. I am not praying how I think I should..Not as often as I should..I fall alseep in prayer, I neglect opportunities for prayer (like offering some prayers when doing the dishes, or laundry)... then I get MAD because I forgot. A part of me feels they are not good enough, so rather than offering junk, I just dont want to offer.

When my wife and I were preparing to get married, the priest asked if we went to Mass. I said, 'not like I should'. He said in reply, 'when you are hungry, you'll eat'. It threw me for a loop, but as I reverted back; it made sense. I think prayer is similar.


How important is prayer?

I think prayer is ultimately a communication. How do you not communicate with someone you say you love?


Thank you Fr. for this thread. Not only have I answered your questions, but I think I have answered some of mine too.

Pax,
Jason[/quote]

Thank you so much for sharing that story - it was so heartfelt and so sweet.

Like you, I have had a tough time of it for quite awhile now. I have lost two jobs in the past month, neither one my fault (actually after two nights off, I showed up at the hospital last night for my caregiver job and the patient had been moved to CCU, but the family neglected to phone me and let me know that my services were no longer required - but what could I say - they are dealing with great sorrow in the illness of their father) - so I am unemployed again. In addition, my own father died two weeks ago, and my daughter, who hasn't spoken to me in two years, came to the funeral and was polite but still didn't want to know me - and well, lots of things that aren't worth going into here. But it does mean that I understand a little of what you are talking about. And yes, God was there for you, showing you what you needed to know. Just as He is with me too. As you said... "according to His will, not mine."

I don't see prayer as being only for petitions (although I do petition for family and friends) - but also for thanksgiving and worship.... and what you said -- communicating with someone you love.

If I didn't have prayer, I don't know how I would survive, so that goes along with your priest's comment about eating when you are hungry. I literally feel like I am starving to death if I don't pray. I haven't always been like this, but it is something that has slowly grown over the past two years, and the more I pray, the more I need to pray (is it like an addiction??).

I think your story also says something about suffering, and how is can be a great gift in disguise. You say you don't want to pray, but you do - that is a great gift to offer to God - the denial of your will to draw closer to Him - obviously God is very close to you right now. I will keep you and your family in my prayers. Thank you again for sharing.

[Guest mreezy]

hello. i jus spoke to a group of young people about prayer life. n u pray to communicate wit god. prayer is the key to god. jus like u gain friends by communicatin wit them n hangin out with them daily!

why not do that with god? why not communicate wit him n spend time with him durin the day. even jus knowin he is there when ur by urself he sees that ur realizin hes there. with out pray u dont have a realtionship wit christ.

its like a verizon commerical... prayer instintly conects u with gods network. whn ever u pray to god he always listens. weather ur venting, askin, or jus chattin wit him he listens.

so many people belive prayer doesnt work becuz things dont ever get answered. but sumtyms people pray but for materialistc things or there not praying from there heart! a prayer can be jus a short sentence!... " god give me strength, god give me the courage to this dis...etc!

when u pray believe that god is listening and have faith that he will rewarded u wit wat he feels u deserve...because we all know he is in charge! =]

in paul its says.. "pray with out seazing" dont jus stop praying whn things go wrong or u have to do sumthing all of a sudden...dont leave god by himself! take him wit u were ever u go! =]

God is Love,
Merrisa







[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1814056' date='Mar 22 2009, 01:57 PM']I have been seeing more and more threads mentioning prayer and how pointless it is, how it "does not work," how there are a hundred other things we would like to do than that.

The scary thing is, I am not just seeing it in these threads, but hearing it from others all over, devout to those who lost their faith and so my question is then why do we pray? I don't want this to become "controversial" which is why I left it out of the Debate Table and not enough people frequent the Transmundane to make this mean anything.

So, I am curious, why do you pray?[/quote]

[BG45]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1815419' date='Mar 24 2009, 10:05 AM']What if you don't want to pray?[/quote]

I make myself anyhow. I find that it is most important to pray when I don't want to, because that is when God needs me to cry out to him and to listen to him most. Granted I'm not always kind when that happens...one time I was downright blasphemous and profane.

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1815490' date='Mar 24 2009, 01:32 PM']How important is prayer to you?[/quote]

Quite. I feel "wrong" in more ways than one if I didn't pray. It's a central part of my life.

[Theologian in Training]

[quote name='MIkolbe' post='1815577' date='Mar 24 2009, 04:10 PM']Thank you Fr. for this thread. Not only have I answered your questions, but I think I have answered some of mine too.

Pax,
Jason[/quote]

That was the point of this thread.

[Mr.Cat]

If one is unwilling or uninspired to pray, one could at least offer the intention to God, to pray to God. Then ask one’s Holy Guardian Angel to pray in their place, and to help them pray better. Since prayer is possibly more than just words, [i]it is in a sense[/i], union with God, which we can do in many different ways, moreover in the Sacrament of Holy Communion ([i]when properly disposed and in a State of Grace[/i]). All our prayers ought to be satellites to the Blessed Sacrament of the Altar, for [i]it[/i], is in His humble appearance the God-man.

The importance of prayer; "Prayer [i]is necessary to salvation, and without it, no one having the use of reason can be saved.[/i]" Prayer is inherent to the contemplative life of a Christian and should reach past sensationalism into reason... But our world is [b]noisy[/b], even for [i]some[/i] who assume the name “[i]Christian[/i]”, do not have the silence in the interior or exterior to bring contemplation and prayer into their lives, as it should be.

We are too distracted by what we presume to have some importance, and while [i]some[/i] of us may understand the serious importance of prayer, we may fail to accurately represent that in our lives. Also while [i]some[/i] may attempt to take on the task of prayer, they may lack the understanding in faith/reason, to pray well, possibly even approaching prayer in a superstitious attitude.

Edited March 24, 2009 by Mr.CatholicCat

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1815419' date='Mar 24 2009, 08:05 AM']What if you don't want to pray?[/quote]
I've heard that prayers said when one doesn't want to pray mean the most to God.

[Domine ut Videam]

Why do I pray?

That is a very good question. Sometimes I ask myself the same question: why [b]do[/b] I pray? I pray for many different reasons: because I need to to survive, some days because it is the only thing that I can do or because God is the only person I can talk to, but mostly because I love him and I want to pray. It's funny because the times that I find myself praying the most are in times of need (which seem to be far too often ), while it should be just as natural to pray in the best times as well, that is something I am working on.

What if my prayers aren't answered?

This is a very difficult question because I will be the first to admit that there are indeeds times and circumstances where it seems that God is simply not hearing my prayers. And while I am only 19, in these short 19 years God has taught me a few things. One of which is that He always answers our prayers, just not always in the manner or at the time that we would like them to be answered. For 5 years (all of High School and freshman year of college) I suffered from Chronic Daily Migraines. I literally always had a headache of about a 7-8 on the pain scale. 24/7, 7 days a week. I can not explain the amount of prayers I and countless others prayed on my behalf. Everyday i would ask God why he wasn't answering my prayer. What I didn't know was that he was, just in His own time and in His own way. I was a difficult lesson to learn and one that I am most definitely not done learning yet.

What if I don't want to pray?

I do it anyways. Pray is not about wanting to do it (although that certainly helps ) Prayer is not about me. It is about God. I am currently reading [i]Time for God [/i] by Fr. Jacques Philippe and the first point he makes is that the first aim of prayer should be fidelity. If we do not pray daily how can we develop a relationship with God, how can the quality of our prayer and desire for it increase if we are not first faithful in prayer? This is what I constantly have to remind myself when i want to sleep in and just skip my daily mental prayer, or when I am angry at God or have sinned and do not want to go spend time with Him. I have to remind myself that no relationship can survive without communication and I want my relationship with Christ to do more than survive, I want it to thrive.

How important is prayer to me?

Prayer is unbelievably important to me. It is the building blocks of my relationship with God. Through daily Mass, rosary, and mental prayer i am striving to grow in holiness in my relationship with Christ. Yes, some days are harder than others, but I just try to remember that without prayer my life would crumble. I love prayer in that it gives me time to process what is happening in my life, it challenges me to grow, and gives me the strength that I need to be Christ for others.

Totus Tuus Maria,
Lauren

P.S. I don't usually post on phatmass anymore, but just read posts. However, this thread is a wonderful thing and seeing everyone's answers is quite inspiring.

[Mr.Cat]

A religion of the heart Catholicism should be, out of pure love of God...

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1815556' date='Mar 24 2009, 12:12 PM']. I don't trust great emotions in relating to religion, feelings are transient, but the will remains. I just hope Someones up there is listening.[/quote]

There is so much to respond to in your post cmotherofpirl that I didn't know where to start. You seem to have a very strong awareness of God's presence, which, to me, is what prayer is all about - no matter what form is used (vocal, mental, contemplation etc). That is so beautiful.

But the thing that I really want to address is the misconception about love always being an emotion. Aquinas said "The proper act of the will is love. " and "The relationship of the intellect to being, i.e. knowledge, seeks truth. The relationship of the will to being, i.e. love, seeks the good."


I didn't know how to express it very well myself, but I think these quotes from a Catholic youth website [url="http://www.nextwavefaithful.com/whatislove4_wood.asp"]nextwave faithful[/url] say a little bit of what I am trying to convey...

[i]My informal survey made me aware of the fact that our generation is growing up with a concept of love that is self-centered and based merely on feelings and the gratification of desires. With the exception of one person, everyone I talked to agreed that love was an emotion, and that, rather than being about giving yourself to another person, it was about how the other person made you feel. Even more surprising was the number of people who responded “I have no idea” when asked what love is. [/i]

But when I talk about falling in love with Jesus, I don't mean this self-centered emotion that desires only self-gratification through feelings, but a total giving of self to the Beloved.

I tend to think more along the lines of St Thomas Aquinas but since I am not a theologian, I will quote again from another site (taking exccerpts but the whole thing can be viewed here [url="http://www9.georgetown.edu/faculty/ap85/145/spring07/ChristianLove.html"]http://www9.georgetown.edu/faculty/ap85/14...istianLove.html[/url] )

...

[i]Thomas thus distinguishes two ways of loving something: loving it simply through wanting good things to happen to it, and loving good things relatively, i.e., through wanting them to happen to someone (often, but not always, oneself).

This raises a puzzle. What kind of love can we have for God? If love requires doing good to someone, how can we do good to God? Doesn’t God already have everything? So is our love for God a love of concupiscence only, a Need-Love, as C. S. Lewis would put it?
But Thomas can say that while we cannot directly benefit God, we can glorify him and work so that his plans, his way of arranging the universe, are promoted.

Now one special kind of love is charity. This is a supernatural love for God. While there is some love for God that we can manage on our own, the fullest love for God requires “infusion”—i.e., it requires God to put it, infuse it, in us. Even though God is perfectly lovable, it is hard to love him, because our affections incline “towards visible goods”. To love God above all things we need his aid.

Thomas sees the union of affection as coming from a union of apprehension or understanding. So in love of friendship I first intellectually recognize the value of, say, a person. This is a union of apprehension: the beloved enters my mind, as it were, and so we are united in my intellect.

Thus, the beloved is in a sense in me. But at the same time I am in the beloved.

Hence, there is a union and a mutual indwelling of lover and beloved.

Finally, love produces ecstasy. Ek-stasis just means: standing-outside (oneself). There is a two-fold ecstasy, related to intellect (“apprehensive power”) and will (“appetitive power”), Thomas says. We are placed outside our normal knowledge through love—we think about the beloved to the exclusion of other things. This is the intellectual ecstasy. And we are placed outside our normal affections: instead of just treating ourselves as ourselves, we treat someone else as ourselves. [/i]

I don't know if this clarifies what I mean by falling in love with Jesus - but it isn't about feelings, although feelings do get involved as well. But it is about surrendering oneself into the Beloved. And then prayer isn't something outside oneself, but a union of the soul with God.

I guess I am saying that one doesn't necessarily have to be afraid of the expression of intense love for Jesus.

Anyway, that's all I meant - hope I didn't confuse things more?
...

Edited March 25, 2009 by nunsense

[kafka]

Why do we pray?

To fulfill the purpose of our existance which is basically to know and to love God in freedom. To pray is too acknowledge that we as a human finite creatures have no control over the establishment of our own being, that we came from an Infinite Creater who freely established our existance and by establishing our existance designed us in His image and likeness to freely turn our entire existance back to Him who is our source. To acknowledge this in our minds, hearts, and bodies is praise, and is pleasing to the Creator. To fail to acknowledge this by ommitting prayer is a blasphemy and displeasing to Him, individually and collectively.

Also in thanksgiving for the establishment of our creation and all the good gifts which God has and continually offers to us his creatures in this life and in hope for the next life. God did not have to create us and did not have to modify our nature so that our eternal destiny is see Him face to face and live with Him forever in Heaven. Yet He did, and this is enough to thank him continually and hopefully forever. Then there is the gift of having won back our eternal life (or salvation) absolutely and irrevocably through the salvific sacrifice of Jesus Christ, who is God. This alone would be enough simply to thank Him in prayer all our days.

In petition, since all truly good works are accomplished in His grace. No truly good work in the ultimate sense that is worthy of merit can be done without the mysterious movement of God, called grace affecting us before, during and after the act. And so it is fitting to continually pray for grace and strenghth to do good and avoid evil, for without the help of God called grace which we are designed to cooperate with we can accomplish nothing in God's judgment as truly good and worthy. By acknowleding this in prayer, God is pleased, and the effect of grace in our being is increased and multiplied.

In sorrow and repentance for sin. We are all sinners. We are all in need of healing and continual repentance. In one way or another all our lives are broken by sin, and in spite of all our attempts in need of God's grace and providence. By praying for true repentance, and by expressing our sorrow and repentance for sin in prayer, God poors out his mercy and forgiveness. If we fail to do this, God will not have mercy, and He will not forgive.

Before having suffered a lot, and before having embarked to solve the deepest truths about who and what I am, and what the fundamental relationship between God and I is, I often did not want to pray, or I was afraid to pray, or I did not value prayer. After having begun to find these answers, I want to pray more, and I want to learn how to pray well, and sincerely, reverently, seriously, and honestly, and not like the pharisees, or the pietistic, or the pretentious. I want to find that place deep in me, that very horizon where I believe and know God is always attempting to communicate with me at all times and in all places, since time and place are nothing to Him. I havent found it yet, but someday I hope I will and make it my home, in life on earth and forever. Amen.

Edited March 25, 2009 by kafka

[philothea]

Great topic. Has taken some thinking before I could answer, because my reasons have changed over time.

When I was very young, I prayed because I was told to.

Very soon, it occurred to me that this would be a great way to GET STUFF I WANT. So that was my motivation for a while, until it became obvious that it didn't work all that great. By then it was a habit, though, and I continued because I liked prayer, despite the lack of reliable delivery of requested stuff. God was my substitute family, and it was nice to have someone to talk to.

Then I learned a bit too much about the gory details (honestly!) of Christianity, and I decided that it was Not Acceptable, and the praying thing was over. Which made me very sad during my usual prayer time, but eventually that faded.

A decade later, I learned some more, became Catholic, got over (mostly, argh) my hang up, and went back to praying because I was told to.

After much reading it seemed possible that Exciting Things might happen while praying, and that motivated me for a while.

Exciting Things did not much happen, but even so I enjoyed prayer. Found it enlightening and fulfilling and even got to spend my non-prayer time content with the fact that I did honestly enjoy praying and thus must be much better than other people.

Then my life fell disastrously apart. Tried prayer of begging to have my impossible problems fixed, which worked just as well as asking for a bicycle when I was six had. In other words, not so much. Changed tactics. Along with asking for help, added complete acceptance of and gratitude for every new setback and crisis. Turned into about 20 hours a day of constant prayer, since I could hardly sleep... for about two years. This worked great! Still didn't get my problem fixed, but I was okay. Strange combination of being in horrible misery and pain, and at the same time very much at peace.

Over a period of many more years, the crisis morphed and, though still awful, eventually became a non-crisis. Prayed still, though it wasn't fun or inspiring, just habit and obligation. Still no stuff. Couldn't even feel superior to other people anymore, sniff.

After a few years of being generally kind of lame, time for a new and different crisis! Because of the nature of the crisis, whenever I tried to pray I'd start crying and wind up with a headache that lasted all day. I couldn't handle that, so instead of formal prayer, I stuck with worrying, mental complaints, threats to become a Buddhist, and occasional actual prayer with crying and headache. It would've made sense to give up, but I was committed. Even if God had rejected me (which seemed the only possible conclusion to draw) I didn't have anywhere else to go. I didn't [i]want[/i] anywhere else to go.

That most recent issue is now... mostly... resolved. Lately I pray for the same kind of reasons as I do physical exercise, though prayer is more important. I get spiritually flabby if I don't! Sometimes prayer is fun, and sometimes it hurts, but it's necessary in any case.

Sorry about the length. Good thing I'm not even older.