Why Do We Pray?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1816038' date='Mar 25 2009, 01:43 AM']There is so much to respond to in your post cmotherofpirl that I didn't know where to start. You seem to have a very strong awareness of God's presence, which, to me, is what prayer is all about - no matter what form is used (vocal, mental, contemplation etc). That is so beautiful.

But the thing that I really want to address is the misconception about love always being an emotion. Aquinas said "The proper act of the will is love. " and "The relationship of the intellect to being, i.e. knowledge, seeks truth. The relationship of the will to being, i.e. love, seeks the good."

I didn't know how to express it very well myself, but I think these quotes from a Catholic youth website [url="http://www.nextwavefaithful.com/whatislove4_wood.asp"]nextwave faithful[/url] say a little bit of what I am trying to convey...

[i]My informal survey made me aware of the fact that our generation is growing up with a concept of love that is self-centered and based merely on feelings and the gratification of desires. With the exception of one person, everyone I talked to agreed that love was an emotion, and that, rather than being about giving yourself to another person, it was about how the other person made you feel. Even more surprising was the number of people who responded “I have no idea” when asked what love is. [/i]

But when I talk about falling in love with Jesus, I don't mean this self-centered emotion that desires only self-gratification through feelings, but a total giving of self to the Beloved.

I tend to think more along the lines of St Thomas Aquinas but since I am not a theologian, I will quote again from another site (taking exccerpts but the whole thing can be viewed here [url="http://www9.georgetown.edu/faculty/ap85/145/spring07/ChristianLove.html"]http://www9.georgetown.edu/faculty/ap85/14...istianLove.html[/url] )

...

[i]Thomas thus distinguishes two ways of loving something: loving it simply through wanting good things to happen to it, and loving good things relatively, i.e., through wanting them to happen to someone (often, but not always, oneself).

This raises a puzzle. What kind of love can we have for God? If love requires doing good to someone, how can we do good to God? Doesn’t God already have everything? So is our love for God a love of concupiscence only, a Need-Love, as C. S. Lewis would put it?
But Thomas can say that while we cannot directly benefit God, we can glorify him and work so that his plans, his way of arranging the universe, are promoted.

Now one special kind of love is charity. This is a supernatural love for God. While there is some love for God that we can manage on our own, the fullest love for God requires “infusion”—i.e., it requires God to put it, infuse it, in us. Even though God is perfectly lovable, it is hard to love him, because our affections incline “towards visible goods”. To love God above all things we need his aid.

Thomas sees the union of affection as coming from a union of apprehension or understanding. So in love of friendship I first intellectually recognize the value of, say, a person. This is a union of apprehension: the beloved enters my mind, as it were, and so we are united in my intellect.

Thus, the beloved is in a sense in me. But at the same time I am in the beloved.

Hence, there is a union and a mutual indwelling of lover and beloved.

Finally, love produces ecstasy. Ek-stasis just means: standing-outside (oneself). There is a two-fold ecstasy, related to intellect (“apprehensive power”) and will (“appetitive power”), Thomas says. We are placed outside our normal knowledge through love—we think about the beloved to the exclusion of other things. This is the intellectual ecstasy. And we are placed outside our normal affections: instead of just treating ourselves as ourselves, we treat someone else as ourselves. [/i]

I don't know if this clarifies what I mean by falling in love with Jesus - but it isn't about feelings, although feelings do get involved as well. But it is about surrendering oneself into the Beloved. And then prayer isn't something outside oneself, but a union of the soul with God.

I guess I am saying that one doesn't necessarily have to be afraid of the expression of intense love for Jesus.

Anyway, that's all I meant - hope I didn't confuse things more?
...[/quote]
You didn't dearie . I think of love as an act of will, but so few people think of it that way. A section of my family is baptist, and they used go around all day smiling proclaiming they loooove Jesus, so I tend to mistrust people who do that, because to me is superficial and they need a shrink. Love is a verb and because you love you put the other first, and judge things first by their well-being, secondly your own. When someone loves [ as a verb] God, He shines thru their actions and its unmistakable.

[Theologian in Training]

Very mature answers and absolutely beautiful descriptions and explanations. Many of you seem to realize that an answer for you may not be the same answer from God, but it is still an answer to your prayer. So I have a followup:

What do you do when one of your prayers are answered?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1816141' date='Mar 25 2009, 11:00 AM']Very mature answers and absolutely beautiful descriptions and explanations. Many of you seem to realize that an answer for you may not be the same answer from God, but it is still an answer to your prayer. So I have a followup:

What do you do when one of your prayers are answered?[/quote]
I no longer ask for things or solutions for myself, so I don't know. I do pray a lot for strangers, but I never know their outcome.

[MissyP89]

Didn't read the whole thread, but figured I could still contribute. God knows my heart better than I do, but I still pray. In a way, it's more for myself than for Him. When I pray, it forces me to stop and simply lay myself down to Him, no give up the control that I never had anyway. To pray is for me to reorganize my priorities, with Him first. It's taking myself down off my high horse and recognizing my Father who loves me.

It also can't hurt to remind God of what we need, even if He does already know. Heh.

If we don't want to...like BG said, we do because it's asked of us. We do because we love Him, even when it hurts to do so. You don't want to scrub the bathroom for your pregnant wife because it hurts your back, but you do it anyway. My pastor once said prayers in the hard times are more precious to Him than any other. I bank on that a lot...knowing that it means so much to Him helps.

And as to why He doesn't answer...He does. Sometimes the answer is no. That smells of elderberries, and is sometimes hard to comprehend, but it's all about trust.

Edit: If I get an answered prayer, I usually do a little dance and thank Him profusely. (Funny, but entirely true.) If the answer is contradictory to my desires, admittedly I don't take it well. I fight with Him, sometimes cry, sometimes vent at my confessor...sometimes I just don't get over it. I have gotten some hard "no" answers in my life. Sometimes it gets easier, and sometimes it doesn't. I stay with Him because I don't make promises I won't keep.

Edited March 25, 2009 by MissyP89

[Mr.Cat]

[b]Prayer is union with God[/b]; I think it’s possible to misunderstand prayer to be a sort of equation, [i]question and then answer[/i]. Prayer always has an answer, [i]which I think God wastes not a single prayer[/i], but as we should always grow and be grateful from prayer. Since prayer is a gift from God [i]and surely some do not always pray[/i], [b]so we should always be grateful for [u]prayer[/u][/b]. So [i][b]if[/b][/i] there is a clearly manifest answer to a particular prayer, [b][i]then[/i][/b] we should be all the more grateful for prayer and grow from it.

I seem to recall a local English Priest comparing prayer to consuming fire, [u][b]out of love of God[/b][/u], [i]I think that this in some sense an accurate depiction[/i]. Reminding me of something from [url="http://saints.sqpn.com/saint-bernadine-of-siena/"][b]Saint Bernadine of Siena[/b][/url], [i]though clearly not the same[/i]:[quote][url="http://saints.sqpn.com/saint-bernadine-of-siena/"][b]Saint Bernadine of Siena[/b][/url]
"When a fire is lit to clear a field, it burns off all the dry and useless weeds and thorns. When the sun rises and darkness is dispelled, robbers, night-prowlers and burglars hide away. So when Paul’s voice was raised to preach the Gospel to the nations, like a great clap of thunder in the sky, his preaching was a blazing fire carrying all before it. It was the sun rising in full glory. Infidelity was consumed by it, false beliefs fled away, and the truth appeared like a great candle lighting the whole world with its brilliant flame."[/quote]

Edited March 25, 2009 by Mr.CatholicCat

[BG45]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' date='Mar 25 2009, 11:00 AM' post='1816141'

What do you do when one of your prayers are answered?
[/quote]

I thank God, profusely. Whether it was one of my prayers for myself or one of my prayers for other people; if it's noticeably an answer to prayer it's only right to offer thanksgiving to him.

There's little else I can do but thank him and to marvel at him.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='BG45' post='1816750' date='Mar 26 2009, 04:16 AM'][quote name='Theologian in Training' date='Mar 25 2009, 11:00 AM' post='1816141'

What do you do when one of your prayers are answered?


I thank God, profusely. Whether it was one of my prayers for myself or one of my prayers for other people; if it's noticeably an answer to prayer it's only right to offer thanksgiving to him.

There's little else I can do but thank him and to marvel at him.[/quote]

[Theologian in Training]

So, if prayer, as many of you seem to imply, is an ongoing conversation with God, that means that God speaks. If so, how does He speak to you?