Lay Ecclesial Ministry

[TeresaBenedicta]

I have much to say on this topic, but I thought I would open discussion up to see what everyone thinks about Lay Ecclesial Ministry. Thoughts?

[CatherineM]

My BA is actually in Pastoral Ministry. The program was designed to train laity for working in increasingly pastor-less parishes. I didn't feel called to it as a vocation. I started simply because I wanted to know more about my faith. The more I knew, the more I realized that there was a need for everyone around me to know more. I felt a call to help, not to lead. My real desire is to teach adult education, not RCIA, but for everyone. A priest who was a straight C student in college, and from a country where an MDiv isn't required can walk into a classroom and speak with authority. As a lay person, I can't without a piece of paper to back it up. I consider my education as preparation. Preparation for what, I don't know. I'm sure eventually that God will let me know, and when he does, I plan to be ready.

Someday, I hope that we will have so many vocations, that the discussion will be moot.

[Apotheoun]

[i]One[/i] i[i]s[/i] mad[i]e[/i] [i]a[/i] minist[i]e[/i]r [i]o[/i]f th[i]e[/i] Chur[i]c[/i]h [i]o[/i]nly thr[i]o[/i]ugh th[i]e[/i] myst[i]e[/i]ry [i]o[/i]f ordinati[i]o[/i]n.

[homeschoolmom]

I have n[i][/i]o idea what t[i][/i]his movement i[i][/i]s.

[Resurrexi]

[i]By this a.r.e. y.o.u referring to be together forever, soldier boy, YOU!!!!! AAAAARRRRGGHHH!!!! my love, be laypeople acting as ministers of, coagulated milk, Holy Communion? If so, then I am strongly against this movement. [/i]

Edited April 1, 2009 by Resurrexi

[Galloglasses' Alt]

I have not heard of this LEM movement. I myself am attempting to become a Lay Minister in as much as I will [b]help[/b] the priest [b]distribute[/b] the Holy Eucharist, (I don't think i'm fit personally even for this job and i'm entertaining thoughts of opting out of the training), if this movement is anything more, say, Lay people consecrating or co-consecrating the Eucharist with the priest I remain firmly against it.

Doesn't matter how few priests we have, we must never belittle the sanctity of the Eucharist in such a way.

(For those of you reading yes I already stated i'm uncomfortable with lay ministry)

Edited April 3, 2009 by Galloglasses' Alt

[mortify]

It depends how this office is used. I can easily see it turning into something that undermines ecclesiastical authority, even an eventual step towards a married priesthood. On the other hand, with a proper understanding of hierarchy this can be a useful way to help the Church where needed.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Galloglasses' Alt' post='1822923' date='Apr 2 2009, 07:01 PM']if this movement is anything more, say, Lay people consecrating or co-consecrating the Eucharist with the priest I remain firmly against it.[/quote]
I don't think we're in such a terrible situation yet. I have a little more hope than that.

[Resurrexi]

Someone who hasn't received priestly order saying "This is my Body" over bread with the intention to consecrate wouldn't cause transubstantiation anyway...

BTW, this poll is flawed. Laymen certainly are ministers (as in "servants," the word's original meaning) when they have been ordained or instituted subdeacon, or lector or acolyte, or even when they serve Mass. However, if this poll is referring to minister as in the minister of a Sacrament, the only time I think a layperson should ever administer a Sacrament would at his own wedding or in the case of an emergency Baptism.

Edited April 3, 2009 by Resurrexi

[Apotheoun]

To be a minister in the Church requires that the man in question be ordained.

In the Eastern Churches those who have received minor orders are held to be clerics.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1823579' date='Apr 3 2009, 02:40 PM']To be a minister in the Church requires that the man in question be ordained.

In the Eastern Churches those who have received minor orders are held to be clerics.[/quote]
Do these terms apply to The Latin Church?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1823611' date='Apr 3 2009, 01:23 PM']Do these terms apply to The Latin Church?[/quote]
Although the Roman Church has suppressed most of the minor orders, it still holds to the tradition that one is only a minister through sacred ordination (cf. John Paul II, [i]Christifideles Laici[/i], no. 23).

[Spence06]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1823611' date='Apr 3 2009, 04:23 PM']Do these terms apply to The Latin Church?[/quote]

From what i've seen it is important to have distinction in the sacramental priesthood and thats key role in the life of the Church. But as per, the latin church's life, there are many documents from the bishops on the lay ministry that exists within the Church.

It can be good since many Churches do not even have a priest for weeks at a time but it must be done in a way to continually promote vocations to the priesthood in my opinion.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Spence06' post='1823638' date='Apr 3 2009, 01:47 PM']From what i've seen it is important to have distinction in the sacramental priesthood and thats key role in the life of the Church. But as per, the latin church's life, there are many documents from the bishops on the lay ministry that exists within the Church.[/quote]
Pope John Paul II said that one is a minister only through sacred ordination, and in saying this he was merely reiterating the constant tradition of the Church, but I suppose you can disagree with him on that issue.

[Spence06]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1823642' date='Apr 3 2009, 04:52 PM']Pope John Paul II said that one is a minister only through sacred ordination, and in saying this he was merely reiterating the constant tradition of the Church, but I suppose you can disagree with him on that issue.[/quote]

Todd,

The sarcasm, though I am guilty of it often, does not help any Catholic discussion.

The reality of the situation, is that I never really said what I thought, just relayed the fact that many documents from the Bishops, have talked about the lay ministry. Pope John Paul II, is right and I don't disagree with him, but even he understood the complexity of the terms used;

"In some cases the extension of the term ministry to the <munera> belonging to the lay faithful has been permitted by the fact that the latter, to their own degree, are a participation in the one priesthood of Christ. The <officio> temporarily entrusted to them however are exclusively the result of a deputation by the church.

Only with constant reference to the one source, the "ministry of Christ"-the "holy <diakonia>" he lived for the good of his body the church and, through the church, for that of the whole world-may the term ministry be applied to a certain extent and without ambiguity to the lay faithful: that is, without it being perceived and lived as an undue aspiration to the "ordained ministry" or as a progressive erosion of its specific nature (cf. <Christifideles Laici>, 21)."ADDRESS ON THE PARTICIPATION OF THE LAITY IN THE PRIESTLY MINISTRY
Pope John Paul II

Its a complex issue of the terms used and the Pope is very gentle in handling it and does not reference the laity as ministers in the proper sense but still having a ministry founded in Christ.

[Apotheoun]

You misread my post, I was not being sarcastic; instead, I was being deadly serious.

God grant you many joyful years,
Todd

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1823615' date='Apr 3 2009, 03:27 PM']Although the Roman Church has suppressed most of the minor orders, it still holds to the tradition that one is only a minister through sacred ordination (cf. John Paul II, [i]Christifideles Laici[/i], no. 23).[/quote]
Thank you.

[CatherineM]

I think the term Lay Ministry refers to those ministries within the church that can licitly be done by the laity. I don't think that you can negate the importance of youth ministry or sacramental preparation by saying that they aren't ministries unless an ordained minister is the only person doing the ministry. That's a big difference away from saying that a lay person could "administer" the sacraments.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1823909' date='Apr 3 2009, 06:27 PM']I think the term Lay Ministry refers to those ministries within the church that can licitly be done by the laity. I don't think that you can negate the importance of youth ministry or sacramental preparation by saying that they aren't ministries unless an ordained minister is the only person doing the ministry. That's a big difference away from saying that a lay person could "administer" the sacraments.[/quote]
That one is deputed to do something in an extraordinary circumstance based upon his baptism does not make him a minister. The term "lay minister" is oxymoronic.

Edited April 4, 2009 by Apotheoun

[grace2u]

[b][i]"Do Not Be Afraid"[/i][/b]

LEM are adjunct, support staff in the parish. With proper training & education (which is readily available in my diocese) we provide visitation, faith formation, administration, prayer services, are EM, etc; most anything that does not involve consecration or anything else that is under the mantle of the ordained.

There are plenty of service opportunities that an informed lay minister can provide in support of their pastor. Who, by the way, is not omnipresent and needs our support so he can do only what he can do.

After completing a 2-year program sponsored by my diocese, I was commissioned by my Bishop and afterwards re-commissioned to service in my parish by my pastor. Learning is a lifelong process and I am still alive.

My only claim to goodness can be that my pastor recognized my heart was turned towards God and he encouraged me to pursue this path. Sadly, he has been moved to another flock. However, our new pastor also endorses LEM and has continued and expanded our role in the parish.

We are not lone rangers. We are accountable to our pastor, the pastoral council, and to our Lord.