StColette Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Dr. Asik if your parents had a Sacramental marriage it cannot be dissolved even by annulment. Annulments within the Church are given only to marriages that are considered non-sacramental in natural. The Church does not "undo" Sacraments. And yes, annulments are long, but I would not say they are costly. Many diocese that I'm aware of will help cover the costs of the annulment process. And it does not matter about being accepted within the parish or not, many parishes would accept a remarried Catholic who is in need of an annulment first. The matter is that it is not acceptable to God, which is clear according to Scripture. The Anglican Church can beat around this bush all they want but it doesn't change God's law. Believe me, I understand how painful divorce can be. As I stated above, my parents divorced. My mom actually cheated on my father and is now currently married to the man she left my father for. She completely abandoned her children. I've forgiven her. My concern for her isn't that she has been able to move on and remarry but my deepest concern for her is for her soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 [quote name='StColette' post='1842493' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:17 PM']No, that's not what I said. I said the verse could be translated as "unlawful marriages" or "unfaithfulness". I did not say that unfaithfulness is grounds for annulment lol It's not. And you would be surprised by how many couples on their FOCUS/Pre-Cana tests think their spouses will eventually cheat on them.[/quote] Yeah I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I just didn't understand what you saying. And I still don't... you may have to spell it out for me sorry The verse is that Jesus allows divorce in cases of unfaithfulness, which you're saying that this could be translated as "unlawful marriage"? Again sorry if I'm being dumb but I'm having a hard time following you on this... BTW my fiance and I just did our engaged encounter and a few weeks back out FOCCUS test. Amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 [quote name='Dr_Asik' post='1842497' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:20 AM']An annulment is long, costly and painful for all members of the family[/quote] +J.M.J.+ not necessarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 [quote name='rkwright' post='1842508' date='Apr 21 2009, 01:38 PM']Yeah I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I just didn't understand what you saying. And I still don't... you may have to spell it out for me sorry The verse is that Jesus allows divorce in cases of unfaithfulness, which you're saying that this could be translated as "unlawful marriage"? Again sorry if I'm being dumb but I'm having a hard time following you on this...[/quote] lol you're not being dumb lol I might just not be clear enough. The Latin/Greek/Aramaic word for unfaithfulness can be translated as unlawful Does that make sense now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 [quote name='StColette' post='1842515' date='Apr 21 2009, 12:44 PM']lol you're not being dumb lol I might just not be clear enough. The Latin/Greek/Aramaic word for unfaithfulness can be translated as unlawful Does that make sense now?[/quote] What is an unlawful marriage? One in which an annulment may be granted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 [quote name='StColette' post='1842499' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:28 AM']And yes, annulments are long, but I would not say they are costly. Many diocese that I'm aware of will help cover the costs of the annulment process.[/quote] +J.M.J.+ it depends on the marriage too, as far as an annulment is concerned. my sister married in a lutheran church, and so her annulment was fairly quick and painless - it took about 6 months to clear up. of course, it was a fairly straightforward case too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 [quote name='rkwright' post='1842518' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:46 AM']What is an unlawful marriage? One in which an annulment may be granted?[/quote] +J.M.J.+ i think my sister's case would be a good example - married in a lutheran church by a lutheran pastor with no dispensation from the Catholic Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 [quote name='rkwright' post='1842518' date='Apr 21 2009, 01:46 PM']What is an unlawful marriage? One in which an annulment may be granted?[/quote] I'm guessing that an unlawful marriage would be one that is not considered Sacramentally valid. Unlawful could be for example someone entering into a marriage against their will, which is grounds for annulment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggamafu Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 As St. Collette said, the passage in question is interpreted by the Church as referring to "fornication" (that is, an invalid marriage). This is no innovation; such has been the constant understanding of this passage since ancient times. The word in Greek can correctly be translated as "fornication" or "sexual immorality"; the Church understands the former to be the intended translation in regards to the cited passage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 I see... that is a very "Catholic" way of looking at it! I like it... Jesus says we can divorce in cases of unlawful marriage. The Church tells us what is unlawful marriage through the annulment process. Correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 porneia is the Greek word in the verse, btw. It can be translated as fornication, unfaithfulness, or unlawful marriage. Moicheia is the Greek word for adultery, which isn't used in the verse in question. Gal 5:19 shows there's a distinction between the two words because they are listed with one another instead of just listing one. I know porneia can also refer to sexual relationships/marriages between close relatives, which would be a big no no according to Leviticus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Asik Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 (edited) [quote name='StColette' post='1842499' date='Apr 21 2009, 02:28 PM']Dr. Asik if your parents had a Sacramental marriage it cannot be dissolved even by annulment. Annulments within the Church are given only to marriages that are considered non-sacramental in natural. The Church does not "undo" Sacraments. And yes, annulments are long, but I would not say they are costly. Many diocese that I'm aware of will help cover the costs of the annulment process. And it does not matter about being accepted within the parish or not, many parishes would accept a remarried Catholic who is in need of an annulment first. The matter is that it is not acceptable to God, which is clear according to Scripture. The Anglican Church can beat around this bush all they want but it doesn't change God's law. Believe me, I understand how painful divorce can be. As I stated above, my parents divorced. My mom actually cheated on my father and is now currently married to the man she left my father for. She completely abandoned her children. I've forgiven her. My concern for her isn't that she has been able to move on and remarry but my deepest concern for her is for her soul.[/quote]I know what's an annulment, it doesn't undo an existing marriage, it merely establishes the invalidity of what was thought to be a marriage. And I say my parents could obtain it. I respect your point of view of your own parents, but we haven't been through the same thing and I ask you to respect mine too. My parents have had their faults, but they have never even thought about rejecting their responsabilities towards the family. This divorce has caused too much harm to everyone for us (because it would imply all the children too) to go through an annulment, we've got a life to live, if you see my meaning. Yes it's God's law. But if you want to reason in those strict terms, then I'll say they've endured enough unwarranted purgatory through this divorce that they can remarry and not fear any additional retribution. Edited April 21, 2009 by Dr_Asik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 [quote name='Dr_Asik' post='1842547' date='Apr 21 2009, 02:08 PM']I respect your point of view of your own parents, but we haven't been through the same thing and I ask you to respect mine too. My parents have had their faults, but they have never even thought about rejecting their responsabilities towards the family. This divorce has caused too much harm to everyone for us (because it would imply all the children too) to go through an annulment, we've got a life to live, if you see my meaning.[/quote] I said nothing disrespectful toward your parents or family. If you took anything I said as disrespectful, I apologize, that was definitely not my intention. I would comment more on other parts of your post, which is in error, but I won't because I believe this is too sensitive a topic for you and would only lead to hard feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 why aren't our parishes doing more to instruct couples on the Holy Sacrament of Matrimony? It seems we have a greater percentage of people getting "married" in the Church only to turn around and have them annulled. And isn't it possible that this is getting abused? Who are the ones who have the final say that a marriage was never truly made? Who are the members of these tribunals? Didn't Pope John Paul make a statement that those who have annulled, even they should re-consider staying single and living the holy single life, rather than re-marry? When he said this back in the mid-90's(?) there was a small uproar... ...i tend to agree...most of those who have annulled two or even three times makes me wonder if marriage is their vocation... I find it all so sad... It reminds me of what the Virgin Mary said at Fatima, that "many marriages" would not be pleasing in the eyes of God... ...and if we think about it, the family unit has been ferociously attacked by the beast...he knows holy families are vital to Holy Mother Church and Her mission on earth... ...i wonder, are any of these couples who apply for annullments receiving counseling? Do they understand what they are doing? Do they even know what it all means? Do any get turned down? Or are the majority of those who want out receiving exactly what they want...? Could it possibly be that some just don't want to take their vows seriously? "til death do we part, in sickness and health, in good times and bad..?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 " All we want now is to turn the page and live peacefully. If either wants to marry again, it's a shame that they won't be accepted by their parish. What many Catholics do in that situation is marry in the Anglican Church, which is very close to the Catholic Church but a bit more liberal, or dare I say, human." Transalted - caters to our fallen nature, i.e. tickles our ears. Do you want a Church that gives the straight scoop or one that bends the rules? By what authority does the Anglican Church do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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