Penance And Absolution

[picchick]

Let's say you go to confession and you do not do your penance. Then you go back and are sorry for all your sins and you confess that you did not do your penance from the last confession. Is the priest able to with hold absolution?

Meg

[CatherineM]

A priest can withhold absolution. I had my favorite priest deny me absolution once. I had just thrown up on him, and pretty much everything in his living room, so I can't say I blame him.

[Spence06]

[quote name='picchick' post='1844128' date='Apr 23 2009, 12:49 AM']Let's say you go to confession and you do not do your penance. Then you go back and are sorry for all your sins and you confess that you did not do your penance from the last confession. Is the priest able to with hold absolution?

Meg[/quote]

Meg,

I would say the priest wouldn't withhold absolution because just from what you said here, no reason not to not give absolution. but like stated above, the priest is always able if he thinks your not really sorry or not going to amend your life or throw up on him.

Edited April 23, 2009 by Spence06

[Nihil Obstat]

He'd probably try to give you a really intense penance the next time though!

[Christie_M]

[quote name='picchick' post='1844128' date='Apr 22 2009, 09:49 PM']Let's say you go to confession and you do not do your penance. Then you go back and are sorry for all your sins and you confess that you did not do your penance from the last confession. Is the priest able to with hold absolution?

Meg[/quote]

Firts off, did the person not do the penance intentionaly or just simply forgot to do it? And if so, then is the person truly sorry for not doing the penance. I think depending on that answer the preist would decide if he would with hold the absolution or not.

[picchick]

Alright, lets say the person did it on purpose...the person would forget...remember but not do it...forget and remember.

But now he was really sorry and intented to do anything to make up for it.

The priest could still withold?

This just doesn't seem right. I understand and full agree with denying absolution if the person is not truly sorry. I learned that. But I not see how a priest could withold absolution if the person did not perform a penance but now has full intent to repent of his actions.

[CatherineM]

You can also simply go to another priest. They are human too, and can hold grudges or be cranky.

[Spence06]

[quote name='picchick' post='1844612' date='Apr 23 2009, 05:24 PM']Alright, lets say the person did it on purpose...the person would forget...remember but not do it...forget and remember.

But now he was really sorry and intented to do anything to make up for it.

The priest could still withold?

This just doesn't seem right. I understand and full agree with denying absolution if the person is not truly sorry. I learned that. But I not see how a priest could withold absolution if the person did not perform a penance but now has full intent to repent of his actions.[/quote]

Yea, I know there are those priest's who still yell at people in confession so I mean, as great as the priesthood is, there are still very human and make mistakes.

Most priests will not refuse absolution if anyone is sorry. But there are those that continue to believe they are a little higher then god himself sometimes.

[picchick]

[quote name='Spence06' post='1846162' date='Apr 24 2009, 03:51 PM']Most priests will not refuse absolution if anyone is sorry. But there are those that continue to believe they are a little higher then god himself sometimes.[/quote]

In total respect...I do know some.

Thank you all for your answers. Although this did not happen to me, it sorta bothered me that it COULD happen. I am very, I guess you could say, sensitive to things that might drive a skeptical convert/revert way from the Church. I think that if someone is making an effort and shows that, they should recieve absolution.

Of course I agree that if someone does not show any sign of repentence, refuses to say sorry, and such, that the priest has every right to refuse.

Thanks again,
Meg

[Nunsense]

So now that the person has remembered, why don't they do the penance now??

[picchick]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1847583' date='Apr 25 2009, 04:10 PM']So now that the person has remembered, why don't they do the penance now??[/quote]

I think that if a person deliberately avoids it, it is a sin. That is what I had in question. They were deliberately avoiding it and confessed to that.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='picchick' post='1847607' date='Apr 25 2009, 02:35 PM']I think that if a person deliberately avoids it, it is a sin. That is what I had in question. They were deliberately avoiding it and confessed to that.[/quote]

Why? If they don't want to do the penance, why even bother going to confession? It doesn't sound like they really want reconciliation with God if they aren't prepared to show any contrition. Is this all just a hypothetical because it doesn't really make a lot of sense.

I can understand someone refusing to do penance, but why would they then confess this? Is there more here than I am able to see?

[picchick]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1847609' date='Apr 25 2009, 04:39 PM']Why? If they don't want to do the penance, why even bother going to confession? It doesn't sound like they really want reconciliation with God if they aren't prepared to show any contrition. Is this all just a hypothetical because it doesn't really make a lot of sense.

I can understand someone refusing to do penance, but why would they then confess this? Is there more here than I am able to see?[/quote]


The original scenario is this:

A person goes to confession. Has a penance but does not do it. He is reminded on his own to do but does not do it.

Then some time later (months, weeks, years) he is truly sorry for not doing it. Is prepared to confess all his sins, including not doing that penance and repent for it all.

The priests says, "I cannot absolve you because you did not do your penance last time."

Is this priest right in doing this especially if the person is truly sorry and is ready to repent of all his sins including not doing that penance?

My point is this: a person may at one time refuse to do a penance but then after some time, realize how wrong he was and that he sinned and is ready to make amends. Does that person deserve to be denied absolution if he is genuinely sorry? Sure, he must not have been sorry enough to perform that first penance but isn't that the case with all our sins? We aren't sorry when we commit them but then later we are sorry and we go to confession.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='picchick' post='1847618' date='Apr 25 2009, 02:46 PM']The original scenario is this:

A person goes to confession. Has a penance but does not do it. He is reminded on his own to do but does not do it.

Then some time later (months, weeks, years) he is truly sorry for not doing it. Is prepared to confess all his sins, including not doing that penance and repent for it all.

The priests says, "I cannot absolve you because you did not do your penance last time."

Is this priest right in doing this especially if the person is truly sorry and is ready to repent of all his sins including not doing that penance?

My point is this: a person may at one time refuse to do a penance but then after some time, realize how wrong he was and that he sinned and is ready to make amends. Does that person deserve to be denied absolution if he is genuinely sorry? Sure, he must not have been sorry enough to perform that first penance but isn't that the case with all our sins? We aren't sorry when we commit them but then later we are sorry and we go to confession.[/quote]

I guess I am still not really seeing the whole picture because if this person remembered on his own but then didn't do the penance over a period of weeks, months or years!!) then it doesn't appear (to me) as if there is real contrition there. When we are truly sorry for something, then we want to make amends. If we have offended God and know that we are separated from Him, the most important thing should be to do everything possible for reconciliation - which includes penance.

At the point when this person decided to go to Confession again (weeks, months or years later), why didn't he STOP, do an examen of conscience, realize that he hadn't done the penance yet, and then do it BEFORE entering the confessional? If the penance was something that for whatever reason, couldn't be done immediately at that time (must have been SOME penance!), then perhaps he could have told the priest that he really wants to do the penance but it was now impossible to do at that moment (once again, not sure why). But it would still be at the discretion of the priest to determine if he felt this person was really contrite, and really wanting to be reconciled to God.

I tend to agree with the priest's decision here because it seems that he has shown no real contrition at all - or humilty - and that he is looking for an easy absolution - perhaps to rid himself of any guilt feelings - rather than seeking true repentence and reconciliation. I think the priest was right to make him wait until he had demonstrated this contrition by doing the penance first, and then going back to the priest and making a "good confession".

If we offend God - it is OUR responsibility to seek forgiveness and reconciliation. The priest has to make the call - we aren't in the confessional with him to make that determination.

If I were this person, I would see this as an opportunity to practice humility, and to come closer to God. Do the penance, go back and confess again, but this time with real sorrow for the sin, and a longing to be reconciled to God. This isn't a game of pride and ego - it is serous business involving the salvation of our soul!

Edited April 25, 2009 by nunsense

[Slappo]

Really what should happen (in my opinion) is the priest ask what the original penance was, reassign that penance as well as another penance and then give absolution.

It could very well be the case that the person confessing didn't even think to do the penance right before going to confession since the sin isn't so much that s/he hasn't yet completed the penance, but that s/he previously consciously chose not to do the penance. I've gone to confession before doing my previous confessions penance and not even confessed it because I didn't ever plan on not doing it. I think that time I went to confession two days in a row and the first penance was something beyond 4 our fathers.

However, a priest always has the ability to withhold absolution.

[Guest]

This topic has my name written all over it. A year or a year and a half ago I went to confession at a parish I dont attend. I confessed some sins (although I didnt do it right because I just lumped them into categories and didnt number them) and the priest for penace told me to talk to 3 people in the church about what the eucharist means to them. Well I don't go to church there so I told myself I would do it but I never did. My aunt and uncle do go to mass there though although I dont talk to them that often and would just find it odd to ask them this question. (I dont know why though probally my pride and lack of love for God)

So anyways a few weeks ago I go to confession and make a huge list of all the sins I can remeber from wayback until now and I try to number them since I have been told here it's not valid unless I say the number of times I have commited the sins. I didn't think to tell the priest that I hadn't fullfiled my penace the other priest had given me. So anyhow the priest absolved me of my sins and I felt brandnew. Although I didn't intentionally tell the priest about the penace thing it has been on my mind that I never fullfiled the penace. Although it wasn't on my mind when I went to confession that day.

So now my question is, is this confession not valid since I didn't do my penace from before ? Although even when I did the old confession I dont even think I did it right to begin with. Thanks.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Guest

[Nunsense]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1849638' date='Apr 26 2009, 10:10 PM']This topic has my name written all over it. A year or a year and a half ago I went to confession at a parish I dont attend. I confessed some sins (although I didnt do it right because I just lumped them into categories and didnt number them) and the priest for penace told me to talk to 3 people in the church about what the eucharist means to them. Well I don't go to church there so I told myself I would do it but I never did. My aunt and uncle do go to mass there though although I dont talk to them that often and would just find it odd to ask them this question. (I dont know why though probally my pride and lack of love for God)

So anyways a few weeks ago I go to confession and make a huge list of all the sins I can remeber from my youner days until now and I try to number them to. Since I have been told here it's not valid unless I say the number of times I have commited the sins. I didn't think to tell the priest that I hadn't fullfiled my penace the other priest had given me. So anyhow the priest absolved me of my sins and I felt brandnew. Although I didn't do this on intentionally it has been on my mind that I never fullfiled the penace. Although it wasn't on my mind when I went to confession that day.

So now my question is, is this confession not valid since I didn't do my penace from before ? Although even when I did the old confession I dont even think I did it right to begin with ? Alright thanks.[/quote]

I'm not a theologian but it appears to me that this is similar to forgetting to confess any sin. The confession was valid as was the absolution, but you still need to confess this forgotten penance the next time you go to confession. You say that you had intended to do the penance but never got around to it - perhaps due more to pride (and fear of embarrassment) than from any wilful act of disobedience? Let the priest know all this, and he can tell you what to do about the missed penance and absolve you from any sin of pride or wilfulness that might have existed.

Remember that the sacrament is about reconciliation - not punishment. God wants you to be reconciled with Him for your sins and hoprefully you want to be reconciled to Him as well. This being the case, ask yourself why you failed to do the first penance, and see if you can't resolve this issue first. Once you understand why, then it will be easier to go to a priest and explain the whole situation. There is a difference between simply forgetting to do penance, and deliberately failing to do it.

[Guest]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1849659' date='Apr 27 2009, 12:26 AM']I'm not a theologian but it appears to me that this is similar to forgetting to confess any sin. The confession was valid as was the absolution, but you still need to confess this forgotten penance the next time you go to confession. You say that you had intended to do the penance but never got around to it - perhaps due more to pride (and fear of embarrassment) than from any wilful act of disobedience?[/quote]

Yea I think I intended to do the penance but I never got around to it. The key issue was embarrassment and pride. I just didnt know how to go about talking to strangers and asking them this. Although God showed me how I could ask my aunt and uncle and also the priest and that would make 3 people in the Church although I never did.

[quote name='nunsense' post='1849659' date='Apr 27 2009, 12:26 AM']Let the priest know all this, and he can tell you what to do about the missed penance and absolve you from any sin of pride or wilfulness that might have existed.[/quote]
Does it matter what priest I go to ?

[quote name='nunsense' post='1849659' date='Apr 27 2009, 12:26 AM']Remember that the sacrament is about reconciliation - not punishment. God wants you to be reconciled with Him for your sins and hoprefully you want to be reconciled to Him as well. This being the case, ask yourself why you failed to do the first penance, and see if you can't resolve this issue first. Once you understand why, then it will be easier to go to a priest and explain the whole situation. There is a difference between simply forgetting to do penance, and deliberately failing to do it.[/quote]

I think I deliberately failed to do it although it wasn't to try to "upset" God. It was just more of it being ackward and not really wanting to put my self in that situation. Lame I know.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Guest

[Nunsense]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1849691' date='Apr 26 2009, 10:48 PM']Yea I think I intended to do the penance but I never got around to it. The key issue was embarrassment and pride. I just didnt know how to go about talking to strangers and asking them this. Although God showed me how I could ask my aunt and uncle and also the priest and that would make 3 people in the Church although I never did.


Does it matter what priest I go to ?



I think I deliberately failed to do it although it wasn't to try to "upset" God. It was just more of it being ackward and not really wanting to put my self in that situation. Lame I know.[/quote]

It sounds to me like you are truly penitent and that you were simply embarrassed (which is the sin of pride, something we all suffer from!).

It doesn't matter which priest you go to - so if you know one that you can relate to easily - then choose him.

If you had no intention of "upsetting" God - and were not wilfully separating yourself from Him, then it was not a mortal sin, but it still needs to be confessed because all sin separates us from His grace.

Say an act of perfect contrition, with the intention of going to confession as soon as possible. Twice I have had occasion to actually phone up the parish and ask a priest for an appointment to confess outside normal times. In both cases the priests were accommodating, but one did tell me that I was being scrupulous because if I had no intention of separating myself from God, then it was not a mortal sin, even though it seemed serious to me -- but I would rather be safe than sorry.... if you know what I mean. I just couldn't bear the idea that I wasn't in a state of grace with God! In your case, unless it worries you a lot, perhaps you could just go to the next scheduled confession in your parish? And don't worry - Jesus came for us sinners just so we could be reconciled with God!

[Guest]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1849758' date='Apr 27 2009, 12:23 AM']It sounds to me like you are truly penitent and that you were simply embarrassed (which is the sin of pride, something we all suffer from!).

It doesn't matter which priest you go to - so if you know one that you can relate to easily - then choose him.

If you had no intention of "upsetting" God - and were not wilfully separating yourself from Him, then it was not a mortal sin, but it still needs to be confessed because all sin separates us from His grace.

Say an act of perfect contrition, with the intention of going to confession as soon as possible. Twice I have had occasion to actually phone up the parish and ask a priest for an appointment to confess outside normal times. In both cases the priests were accommodating, but one did tell me that I was being scrupulous because if I had no intention of separating myself from God, then it was not a mortal sin, even though it seemed serious to me -- but I would rather be safe than sorry.... if you know what I mean. I just couldn't bear the idea that I wasn't in a state of grace with God! In your case, unless it worries you a lot, perhaps you could just go to the next scheduled confession in your parish? And don't worry - Jesus came for us sinners just so we could be reconciled with God![/quote]

Thanks and Godbless.