Liturgical Abuse

[CatherineM]

And if he was encouraging liturgical dance, I don't think half-naked is the way he would go with it.

[rizz_loves_jesus]

I think I'm pretty lucky. I've never noticed abuses or anything where I've gone I did notice at our diocesan youth conference, though, that they used a glass bowl for the Precious Body (I think I read somewhere you're not supposed to do that?)

Edited April 27, 2009 by rizz_loves_jesus

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1850063' date='Apr 27 2009, 01:45 PM']Sorry, but unless he is talking about a place where it is part of the culture, I do not believe it.[/quote]

Yeah, I forgot to include the "in Africa" part. But I thought about that because without knowing anything about Flamenco, how can we say it doesn't belong in a Filipino Mass?

By far, the worst I've seen is one parish that baked their own bread for the Eucharist and it was way too crumbly... lots of crumbs on the floor. It's hard to imagine what is worse than that... besides directly abusing the Sacrament.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='rizz_loves_jesus' post='1850332' date='Apr 27 2009, 04:48 PM']they used a glass bowl for the Precious Body (I think I read somewhere you're not supposed to do that?)[/quote]

HUGE ABUSE!

[AdAltareDei]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1850063' date='Apr 27 2009, 11:45 AM']Sorry, but unless he is talking about a place where it is part of the culture, I do not believe it.[/quote]

It shouldn't even be allowed in Africa.
The Mass isn't a performance, and liturgical dance clearly takes the focus away from Christ and onto the dancers.

Besides, I don't think Card. Arinze heads the Congregation for Divine Worship anymore does he?

Didn't the new prefect celebrate an EF Mass a few weeks ago with the Franciscans of the Immaculate?

[tinytherese]

My roommate is a pseudo catholic and I'm afraid that the culture issue plays at least some part in that. She preferred attending a Pentecostal Church last year because it "had drums."

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='AdAltareDei' post='1850808' date='Apr 27 2009, 08:11 PM']It shouldn't even be allowed in Africa.
The Mass isn't a performance, and liturgical dance clearly takes the focus away from Christ and onto the dancers.[/quote]
I disagree.
It's all about cultural context. In the Western Church, kneeling is a sign of deep reverence. In the Eastern Church, standing is a sign of deep revernce. In Africa, perhaps dance is a sign of reverence - I don't know, I'm not African. I don't know what is considered most reverent. Accordingly, I'm not going to judge whether or not it's appropriate, since I don't know. Now, an African cardinal might know, considering his circumstances.

[saintwannabe 777]

[quote name='AdAltareDei' post='1850808' date='Apr 27 2009, 09:11 PM']It shouldn't even be allowed in Africa.
The Mass isn't a performance, and liturgical dance clearly takes the focus away from Christ and onto the dancers.

Besides, I don't think Card. Arinze heads the Congregation for Divine Worship anymore does he?

Didn't the new prefect celebrate an EF Mass a few weeks ago with the Franciscans of the Immaculate?[/quote]

Why are you saying it shouldn't be allowed in Africa? That's part of our culture.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='saintwannabe 777' post='1850888' date='Apr 27 2009, 11:14 PM']Why are you saying it shouldn't be allowed in Africa? That's part of our culture.[/quote]
THat is exactly why it is.

[picchick]

[quote name='AbsconditaInDeo' post='1849915' date='Apr 27 2009, 09:44 AM']I went to a non-English speaking parish and the Gospel was read by an altar boy[/quote]
I didn't know that this was an abuse...



[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' post='1850834' date='Apr 27 2009, 09:37 PM']I disagree.
It's all about cultural context. In the Western Church, kneeling is a sign of deep reverence. In the Eastern Church, standing is a sign of deep revernce. In Africa, perhaps dance is a sign of reverence - I don't know, I'm not African. I don't know what is considered most reverent. Accordingly, I'm not going to judge whether or not it's appropriate, since I don't know. Now, an African cardinal might know, considering his circumstances. [/quote]
Agreed

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='picchick' post='1850897' date='Apr 27 2009, 11:19 PM']I didn't know that this was an abuse...[/quote]

It's actually a pretty serious abuse. Only a deacon, priest, or bishop may read the Gospel.

[AdAltareDei]

[quote name='saintwannabe 777' post='1850888' date='Apr 27 2009, 10:14 PM']Why are you saying it shouldn't be allowed in Africa? That's part of our culture.[/quote]

Because the Mass isn't about showing off your culture.
It's about adoring Our Lord in the Eucharist and meditating on the readings.

The focus should be on Christ, not people dancing.

Besides, as Catholics we have our own culture. Greogrian and polyphonic chant is our proper heritage.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='AdAltareDei' post='1850922' date='Apr 27 2009, 11:42 PM']Because the Mass isn't about showing off your culture.
It's about adoring Our Lord in the Eucharist and meditating on the readings.

The focus should be on Christ, not people dancing.

Besides, as Catholics we have our own culture. Greogrian and polyphonic chant is our proper heritage.[/quote]
Africa has a tradition of religious dance, which is why its allowed.

[picchick]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1850921' date='Apr 27 2009, 10:41 PM']It's actually a pretty serious abuse. Only a deacon, priest, or bishop may read the Gospel.[/quote]


Excuse my dumb moment...I meant the readings...not the gospel. I misread it. I know that only a priest or higher can read the Gospel...I was just mixing things in my head.

[quote name='AdAltareDei' post='1850922' date='Apr 27 2009, 10:42 PM']Because the Mass isn't about showing off your culture.
It's about adoring Our Lord in the Eucharist and meditating on the readings.

The focus should be on Christ, not people dancing.

Besides, as Catholics we have our own culture. Greogrian and polyphonic chant is our proper heritage.[/quote]
wrong.
Mass reflects our culture. Not everyone was from Rome. Thus we have the Eastern Rite. I won't get into that because I am not well versed in it. Thereofre Gregorian and polyphonic chant is not our proper heritage. And I will highly doubt that the very early Church used Greograin Chant. It wasn't until later that that form of Chant was used. Other forms of Chant existed but not Gregorian. However, the Catholic Church has adapted many cultural practices so that it becomes accepted and understood by the people.

For example, St. Patrick used symbols that pagans would have used to describe God and the Trinity.

St. Boniface used the evergreen tree to demonstrate the same to the pagans in Germany. Now do you celebrate Christmas with a Christmas tree? Is your Church decorated with it at Christmastime?

Dancing in cultures such as Mexico and Africa is not for entertainment but for praise. We, in the Western Church kneel, beat our breast, sing, et. al. to show God praise. In those cultures, they do it as a form of respect and paise.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1850811' date='Apr 27 2009, 09:15 PM']My roommate is a pseudo catholic and I'm afraid that the culture issue plays at least some part in that. She preferred attending a Pentecostal Church last year because it "had drums."[/quote]

Oops, forgot to mention that she's from Zimbabwe.