Liturgical Abuse

[jeffpugh]

I'm backing the Jakeman on this one. We can walk with Jesus from our own place in life, but when it comes to the liturgy, it is all laid out for us as a place of unity in a sensual and eternal sense: we experience the same liturgy as all the Church militant, Church Suffering and Church victorious.

[AdAltareDei]

One of my favourite things about the EF Mass is that it gives a whole new meaning to the word "universal". I am praying the exact same words, in the exact same way as Catholics on the other side of the globe. The prayers I recite at the EF Mass in Melbourne Australia are the same that the recusant Catholics recited hundreds of years ago in their house chapels, or the Japanese Martyrs recited before the priests were kicked out.

Even in the Ordinary Form I think we need to reclaim this sense of the sacred and idea of continuity.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='AdAltareDei' post='1850922' date='Apr 27 2009, 11:42 PM']Because the Mass isn't about showing off your culture.
It's about adoring Our Lord in the Eucharist and meditating on the readings.

The focus should be on Christ, not people dancing.

Besides, as Catholics we have our own culture. Greogrian and polyphonic chant is our proper heritage.[/quote]

...proper to our European heritage

[AdAltareDei]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1851178' date='Apr 28 2009, 08:50 AM']...proper to our European heritage [/quote]

No.
Proper to our heritage in the Latin Rite.
Regardless of location.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='AdAltareDei' post='1851058' date='Apr 28 2009, 01:11 AM']Liturgical dance is relatively new so I suppose it hasn't got to that point yet.
I just believe its inappropriate and doesn't belong in the Mass.
It takes the attention off of the Eucharist and turns Mass into a performance.[/quote]

Your objection to liturgical dance comes from how you understand dance in Western culture. Quite frankly, I think dance is largely absent from modern Western culture... we watch other people dance because it's so rare in our own lives. At weddings we have that stupid electric slide. When it comes to dance, we are basically illiterate. But for other cultures, dance serves a very different and very integral role in culture and life. Besides, remember that David danced before the presence of God. He wasn't performing for anyone's applause; he was expressing his joy and celebrating God's love and faithfulness.

Edited April 28, 2009 by LouisvilleFan

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='AdAltareDei' post='1851093' date='Apr 28 2009, 02:02 AM']There's lots of room for mixing religion and culture. Just not in the liturgy.
I guarantee you that St. Juan Diego didn't start playing native instruments or processed into Mass dancing.

It's the liturgy we're talking about.
If they want to dance to praise God then thats fine, but do it outside the context of the Mass. It only acts to further diminish the sacrificial nature of the Mass and orientate the liturgy towards the celebration of man, not the celebration of God. I think sometimes we forget that the Mass is a prayer.[/quote]

Even if you're right, you might want to take the time to learn about the culture first before "guaranteeing" a guy like Juan Diego did not play his native instruments or dance at Mass. You're reading into his culture something that comes from your culture, and for Juan Diego, taking away dance might be like taking away his feet. In South American, African, Pacific Island and perhaps Asian cultures, dance indeed can be a beautiful and reverent prayer. For us, it's an exotic show of culture because we don't know the meanings of the finer body movements and we aren't raised in a culture that would even think about that. Western culture has been largely influenced (I should say damaged) by puritanical ideals that sought to purify Europe of drunkeness and debauchery. Hence, drinking and dancing are more associated with sin than virtue because the only people drinking and dancing were the sinners (and the Catholics, who were a minority in most Western countries, and thus became influenced by the culture more than we influenced the culture). We still consider drinking a "bad" thing or something you do to escape life and dancing is sexy and fun to watch on TV. That's not how most of the rest of the world views these things, so it's good to keep that in mind.

Edited April 28, 2009 by LouisvilleFan