Scholasticism

[Aloysius]

I suppose I should mention that I do understand the desire to regain the wider application of the word "worship" in the English language, because when the distinction is made, dulia tends to be translated with the English word "honor" which does not truly encompass the full meaning that "dulia" should entail. it's an inadequacy of English, though, because Greek and Latin both have distinct words and thus can both clearly say against any charge of idolatry "we don't offer 'latria', we offer 'dulia'", but if "worship" is used in its broader sense, we really have no word to show that we don't offer what is only proper to God to created things.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1855912' date='May 2 2009, 09:48 PM']Although the Sacred Scriptures can be translated into any language, only the original Greek New Testament is authoritative, and the Church Fathers would hold that only the LXX Old Testament is authoritative as well, because it is the Old Testament text quoted by the New Testament authors, who acted under the energy of divine inspiration.[/quote]
but the fact that there exists no original text means that we cannot exactly hold up a standard version to point to the way the Koran in Classical Arabic is pointed to (though that is not the original text even though they posit that it is, other versions have been found in archaeology)

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1855913' date='May 2 2009, 06:48 PM']I suppose I should mention that I do understand the desire to regain the wider application of the word "worship" in the English language, . . .[/quote]
It is important because modern translations continue to evidence the older usage, e.g., the NIV Bible (not a translation I like, but one that illustrates my point) says: "Worship [προσκυνήσεις] the Lord your God, and serve [λατρεύσεις] him only."

[kafka]

I dont need to correct you Al. I am in accord with your understanding. I know the difference between latria and dulia.

When I post it is for a Western Latin Roman Catholic. I cannot take into account Eastern theology nor do I intend to, nor could I possibly.

Please make note of this Apotheon.

When I post its for love of Truth and the Faith, and not meant to be a controversy or ambivalence toward anyone or any particular theological school.

You must respect the fact that I have good will and am trying to advance the understanding of the Faith albeit in my own little way.

When theology gets to be too technical and too absorbed in semantics it makes me sick.

I hold the view that a theologian is supposed to be a teacher to the entire Church and not an exclusive almost gnostic like practice only for the initiated. Yes there is a time for technicality and strenous thought and effort and difficult terms but generally a good teacher may reduce profound truths into simple expressions. Simplicity in profundity.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='kafka' post='1855933' date='May 2 2009, 07:01 PM']When theology gets to be too technical and too absorbed in semantics it makes me sick.[/quote]
The inspired words of Sacred Scripture and the terms hallowed by the God-inspired Fathers of the Councils are a part of theology, and so ignorance of them is ignorance of Christ.

[kafka]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1856046' date='May 2 2009, 10:42 PM']The inspired words of Sacred Scripture and the terms hallowed by the God-inspired Fathers of the Councils are a part of theology, and so ignorance of them is ignorance of Christ.[/quote]
May Grace and Peace be with you:

all your days.

and may the prayer of Jesus Christ be answered soon:

{17:20} But I am not praying for them only, but also for those who through their word shall believe in me.
{17:21} So may they all be one. Just as you, Father, are in me, and I am in you, so also may they be one in us: so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

Edited May 3, 2009 by kafka

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1855912' date='May 2 2009, 08:48 PM']Although the Sacred Scriptures can be translated into any language: only the original Greek New Testament is authoritative, and the Church Fathers would hold that only the LXX Old Testament is authoritative as well, because it is the Old Testament text quoted by the New Testament authors, who acted under the energy of divine inspiration.[/quote]

I think Pope Pius XII would disagree that only the original Greek New Testament is authoritative:

"And if the Tridentine Synod wished 'that all should use as authentic' the Vulgate Latin version, this, as all know, applies only to the Latin Church and to the public use of the same Scriptures; nor does it, doubtless, in any way diminish the authority and value of the original texts. For there was no question then of these texts, but of the Latin versions, which were in circulation at that time, and of these the same Council rightly declared to be preferable that which 'had been approved by its long-continued use for so many centuries in the Church.' Hence [b]this special authority or as they say, authenticity of the Vulgate[/b] was not affirmed by the Council particularly for critical reasons, but rather because of its legitimate use in the Churches throughout so many centuries; by which use indeed the same is shown, in the sense in which the Church has understood and understands it, to be free from any error whatsoever in matters of faith and morals; so that, as the Church herself testifies and affirms, it may be quoted safely and without fear of error in disputations, in lectures and in preaching; and so its authenticity is not specified primarily as critical, but rather as juridical.

Wherefore [b]this authority of the Vulgate in matters of doctrine[/b] by no means prevents - nay rather today it almost demands - either the corroboration and confirmation of this same doctrine by the original texts or the having recourse on any and every occasion to the aid of these same texts, by which the correct meaning of the Sacred Letters is everywhere daily made more clear and evident. Nor is it forbidden by the decree of the Council of Trent to make translations into the vulgar tongue, even directly from the original texts themselves, for the use and benefit of the faithful and for the better understanding of the divine word, as We know to have been already done in a laudable manner in many countries with the approval of the Ecclesiastical authority." (Pope Pius XII, [i]Divine Afflante Spiritu[/i] 21-22; emphasis added)

[kafka]

Aloysisus and Resurrexi forever.

Yet you two need to open up a bit.

[Innocent]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1854309' date='May 1 2009, 11:47 PM']Have you read what Adrienne von Speyr says about Aquinas?[/quote]


[quote name='Paddington' post='1854343' date='May 2 2009, 12:27 AM']What did she say?[/quote]


[quote name='Innocent' post='1855034' date='May 2 2009, 10:30 AM']Please do tell us what she says, if you have the time. I would like to know.[/quote]


Um.. I've been searching the net, but can't find anything about what Adrienne Von Speyr said about Aquinas, except for [url="http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2008/hub_introavsbksaints_may08.asp"]this snippet[/url]:

[quote]It is important for the reader to bear in mind that the only thing intended to be shown here is the particular person's prayer and attitude toward prayer in relation to God. This attitude can in some cases be considerably different from the person's other achievements in the world and also for the Church ([b]as, for example, the surprising and indeed shocking portrait drawn of Thomas Aquinas shows[/b]). The degree of integration between inner life and external work can vary quite significantly in the different saints, as we see, for example, in the description of Gregory of Nyssa.[/quote]

which tells me nothing and has only increased my curiosity.

Apotheoun, Please end the suspense and tell us what she said! Onegai itashimasu!

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1856136' date='May 2 2009, 09:55 PM']I think Pope Pius XII would disagree that only the original Greek New Testament is authoritative:[/quote]
Pius XII may not have liked it, but God Himself chose to inspire the Sacred Scriptures in Greek, not Latin, and I think that God knew what He was doing.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Innocent' post='1856320' date='May 3 2009, 12:46 AM']Apotheoun, Please end the suspense and tell us what she said! Onegai itashimasu![/quote]
What she said is not flattering to Aquinas; so rather than post it here, I suggest you get a hold of a copy of her book entitled "Book of All Saints," which is published by Ignatius Press.

[Resurrexi]

The fact that the most of the New Testament was originally in Greek doesn't mean that the Vulgate isn't authoritative.

[Innocent]

Apotheoun,


As I have said previously, [size=1](in that thread where you recommended I read Life of Moses by St. Gregory of Nyssa - I'm still frustrated at not finding a Public Domain version of this book online. Apparently, everything St. Gregory wrote has been put on the internet - except for this book!) [/size]I am not currently in a position to buy books through the internet, and I'm pretty much sure I won't be finding it in any bookstore nearby.

Of course, I could have some bookstore order it from abroad, but that will be VERY costly.

Since what she said is already in a book published by the Ignatius Press which everyone here respects for orthodoxy, surely there won't be any problem in briefly stating what she said?

Edited May 3, 2009 by Innocent

[kafka]

why bother with von Speyr?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='kafka' post='1856344' date='May 3 2009, 01:16 AM']why bother with von Speyr?[/quote]
Why bother reading?