To Know When To Give Up

[trustandgratitude]

Ok, you'll have to forgive me I'm extreamly computer illiterate whan it come to message boards....

when is it time to give up on a vocation? I prayed all Lent that God would take this desire for me because leaving it unfullfilled hurts to much. I recieved a note from a Sr. I know asking me to pray for her as she was preparing to take you final vows. Her note, a great act of humility, spoke right to my heart " God is allowing to espouse his Son". As my heart fill with joy for her it also filled with anger because this is my desire too. My heart aches and I find myself asking is it time to give up? There have been so many obsticals.

[CatherineM]

I don't think I truly gave up on my dreams of vocation until I was 43 and fell in love.

[Thomist-in-Training]

I can only speak for myself. I first felt that I could have a call at the end of high school. I was quickly discouraged by my parents' reaction, and at that point I had neither a strong faith, nor a strong knowledge about things Catholic, let alone religious orders. I waffled in my first year and a half of college. In Advent of my second year, though, I decided to see it all the way through, and only give up when

A) I entered a community

or

B) Someone I really trusted (a priest-advisor or a superior of a community, etc) told me they were convinced I did not have a religious vocation.

If I hadn't had an adviser but had still become [i]fully [/i]convinced in my heart that it wasn't wishful thinking but I really didn't have a vocation, I would probably also have taken that as "seeing it through." However, in fact, I became more and more certain that I [i]do [/i]have a religious vocation, and I have been accepted to a community... certainly after a lot of struggles, and I have more ahead of me to get there!

If I were you, I would make a similar promise to myself and to God to see it through to the end until certain one way or the other. You may have a lot of struggles, but one way or the other you will end up with peace as well, which is better than always being uncertain. I will pray for you!

N.B. The only way obstacles would show that you should give up is if they are [i]invincible [/i]obstacles to religious life... certain mental health problems, someone you have an unbreakable obligation to take care of, and that kind of thing.

On the other hand, obstacles like lack of education, not knowing any communities, strong, even forcible opposition from parents, having to wait a very long time--all of these were overcome by many Saints.

[tinytherese]

As I've heard it put before, don't give up-offer it up to God and leave it in His hands.

Easier said than done I know.

[Marieteresa]

hi, I just wanted to say that I understand how you are feeling....For so long that was all my heart desired, to love and serve him as a sister. I have had many friends who have entered religious life and although i was happy that they finally were able to pursue their dreams, I at the same time wondered when it would be my turn....when would I become His bride. I understand the obstacles you face for me it was student loan debt...although anything is possible it just didn't seem like it was God's timing for me. Anyway, hang in there and try not to lose faith...try to use this time outside as preparation for when you finally enter. Again nothing is impossible with God. Know that you will be in my prayers

[walburga]

[quote name='trustandgratitude' post='1854248' date='May 1 2009, 11:40 AM']Ok, you'll have to forgive me I'm extreamly computer illiterate whan it come to message boards....

when is it time to give up on a vocation? I prayed all Lent that God would take this desire for me because leaving it unfullfilled hurts to much. I recieved a note from a Sr. I know asking me to pray for her as she was preparing to take you final vows. Her note, a great act of humility, spoke right to my heart " God is allowing to espouse his Son". As my heart fill with joy for her it also filled with anger because this is my desire too. My heart aches and I find myself asking is it time to give up? There have been so many obsticals.[/quote]


I have been waiting for 13 years to enter religious life. I had already become very close to a well-known Benedictine community and even lived in the monastery for a couple of years. I watched as postulants passed me by, made vows, and there I was... still living in the guest wing. My first obstacle was a HUGE debt, then, I was diagnosed with lupus, and of course, as the years went by while I worked to pay my debt, I got older so... I finally gave up because it hurt too badly to go on. I started studying, learing how to write a rule of life, preparing myself to live a life for God, alone, as a 'solitary'. And I was at peace until... I made a retreat at a monastery I had never heard of before. As soon as I was in the monastic environment all my desire flared up again and I was angry with God. Very angry. I asked Him to either fill this desire or take it from me. I remember the exact moment... I was walking down the road at the front of the monastery. I turned and looked back and I heard His voice, "If you could enter here, would you, or would you run away?" I was scared because this community is serious business - papal enclosure, everything in Latin, they mean what they say when they talk about the purpose of their lives - they are truly seeking union with God and that is serious stuff! I answered,"If You open the door, I will walk through. I will not run away, no matter how afraid I may be. But, if You do not open the door, I am done. I will never consider religious life again." The next day I spoke with the novice mistress, who knew my obstacles, and I asked her if there were any chance the door would be open to me. From that moment on, the doors have kept opening in many surprising ways. It hasn't been easy, waiting on God, but so far, it's been worth it! None of this is mine, nothing comes from me. I cannot credit myself with getting out of debt, or having my health stabilize, or any of the other things that have happened. This is all about Him, and I know it. I can't even PRETEND that I have any role in this. So, what I would say to you is this... give it right back to God. I'm not kidding when I say I know what you are experiencing. It was when I stopped looking and was able to 'get out of the way' that God was able to do His part and He has brought me to the most unexpected places! He will do it for you too. Not, He MIGHT do it, or He COULD do it, but He WILL do it. When the time is right, when He has prepared you, when you are ready to receive it...

I just want to add one more thing... for me, everything changed when I decided to make a "Marian year". For the entire year of 2008, starting on January 1, I made sure I prayed a rosary every day and very specifically put my discernment in the hands of Our Lady. Eventually, I made the total consecration as well. Precisely 15 days after I started my prayer, things began to happen, doors began to open. Ask Our Lady. There is no better guide for discernment than herself!

Edited May 1, 2009 by walburga

[the lords sheep]

wow. Thank you Walburga.
That gives me so much peace and encouragement. I know it wasn't intended for me, but I thank you none the less.

In Christ,
Lauren

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='the lords sheep' post='1854639' date='May 1 2009, 08:33 PM']wow. Thank you Walburga.
That gives me so much peace and encouragement. I know it wasn't intended for me, but I thank you none the less.

In Christ,
Lauren[/quote]

I say thanks as well ... it is encouragement.

[DameAgnes]

Walburga, what a very good reply. All of it.

I was especially struck by this "So, what I would say to you is this... give it right back to God. I'm not kidding when I say I know what you are experiencing. It was when I stopped looking and was able to 'get out of the way' that God was able to do His part and He has brought me to the most unexpected places! He will do it for you too. Not, He MIGHT do it, or He COULD do it, but He WILL do it. When the time is right, when He has prepared you, when you are ready to receive it..."

This is my experience too. When you say to God, "show me what you have for me," he will. it's astonishing.

btw, when do you enter, and I am correct in thinking you're a Benedictine?

Edited May 2, 2009 by DameAgnes

[trustandgratitude]

[quote name='walburga' post='1854603' date='May 1 2009, 06:01 PM']I have been waiting for 13 years to enter religious life. I had already become very close to a well-known Benedictine community and even lived in the monastery for a couple of years. I watched as postulants passed me by, made vows, and there I was... still living in the guest wing. My first obstacle was a HUGE debt, then, I was diagnosed with lupus, and of course, as the years went by while I worked to pay my debt, I got older so... I finally gave up because it hurt too badly to go on. I started studying, learing how to write a rule of life, preparing myself to live a life for God, alone, as a 'solitary'. And I was at peace until... I made a retreat at a monastery I had never heard of before. As soon as I was in the monastic environment all my desire flared up again and I was angry with God. Very angry. I asked Him to either fill this desire or take it from me. I remember the exact moment... I was walking down the road at the front of the monastery. I turned and looked back and I heard His voice, "If you could enter here, would you, or would you run away?" I was scared because this community is serious business - papal enclosure, everything in Latin, they mean what they say when they talk about the purpose of their lives - they are truly seeking union with God and that is serious stuff! I answered,"If You open the door, I will walk through. I will not run away, no matter how afraid I may be. But, if You do not open the door, I am done. I will never consider religious life again." The next day I spoke with the novice mistress, who knew my obstacles, and I asked her if there were any chance the door would be open to me. From that moment on, the doors have kept opening in many surprising ways. It hasn't been easy, waiting on God, but so far, it's been worth it! None of this is mine, nothing comes from me. I cannot credit myself with getting out of debt, or having my health stabilize, or any of the other things that have happened. This is all about Him, and I know it. I can't even PRETEND that I have any role in this. So, what I would say to you is this... give it right back to God. I'm not kidding when I say I know what you are experiencing. It was when I stopped looking and was able to 'get out of the way' that God was able to do His part and He has brought me to the most unexpected places! He will do it for you too. Not, He MIGHT do it, or He COULD do it, but He WILL do it. When the time is right, when He has prepared you, when you are ready to receive it...

I just want to add one more thing... for me, everything changed when I decided to make a "Marian year". For the entire year of 2008, starting on January 1, I made sure I prayed a rosary every day and very specifically put my discernment in the hands of Our Lady. Eventually, I made the total consecration as well. Precisely 15 days after I started my prayer, things began to happen, doors began to open. Ask Our Lady. There is no better guide for discernment than herself![/quote]

Thank you

[laetitia crucis]

Thank you, walburga. This is exactly what I've been needing to hear, too.

God bless!

[walburga]

[quote name='DameAgnes' post='1854964' date='May 1 2009, 10:36 PM']Walburga, what a very good reply. All of it.

I was especially struck by this "So, what I would say to you is this... give it right back to God. I'm not kidding when I say I know what you are experiencing. It was when I stopped looking and was able to 'get out of the way' that God was able to do His part and He has brought me to the most unexpected places! He will do it for you too. Not, He MIGHT do it, or He COULD do it, but He WILL do it. When the time is right, when He has prepared you, when you are ready to receive it..."

This is my experience too. When you say to God, "show me what you have for me," he will. it's astonishing.

btw, when do you enter, and I am correct in thinking you're a Benedictine?[/quote]

I enter on June 20th. Yes, I'm entering a Benedictine community.

[DameAgnes]

I will pray for your intention; I'm an oblate so we are true sisters in spirit!

[walburga]

[quote name='DameAgnes' post='1855769' date='May 2 2009, 06:33 PM']I will pray for your intention; I'm an oblate so we are true sisters in spirit![/quote]

Thank you! Of which monastery are you an oblate?

[DameAgnes]

St. John's in Collegeville, but I'm considering transferring my oblation to Latrobe. The Oblate community there seems more vibrant, and as I am the only oblate I know (where I am, there are no monasteries at all) I think I can get to it more often.

[trustandgratitude]

I'd like to share something that is just the most awesome.... Last Lent my brother told me that he had a drug addiction, for 10 years. He overdosed and that scared him into admitting he had a problem; It took another year to finally get that help. In the mean time I had entered a religous community but before doing so I dedicated my monastic life to his recovery and to his conversion back to Christ. Fast forward a bit, I was not able to stay with the community because of health. The beginning of this Lent looked grim as I was feeling lost and disheartened and the rest I will quote from a letter I recieved from my brother. " That day I called you I was at my weakest and knew I was going to die without help. If you had not been availible, i.e in the monastery, and able to take my call I would have never made it. I love Mom and Dad but thier characterists as parent would have stayed my hand from ever making it. I did not need parents at that moment, I need you! I knew you would know exactly what to do and you did and for that I thank you. That day, when you told me what was recently said to you " God is using your suffering to save your brother." sitting there in Ihop I found God for the first time in what seemes like an eternity. Everything I had thought were coincedinces flashed throught my mind and I began to see that it was all part of a Divine plan, His plan." My brother in now in his second month of rehab and is going to Mass and recieving Our Lord. " God is so good and faithful. Please remember to thank God everyday even for those things that don't seem to make much since.

I wanted to share this because I know I started this topic and I know that God always has a plan and if he closes one door He opens another. The process is so very humbling and it teaches you trust in much more profound way. I posted earlier because I continuiosly struggle with the ups and downs of not knowing.

Thank each of you of you replies, they are such an enouragement.

[VeniteAdoremus]

Wow. What beautiful replies.

As I am due to enter as soon as I graduate (September), I can't really relate. But my father can.

Without diving into our family history too much: he went to high school seminary, then it became the sixties and everybody left (of his class, two were ordained). He met my mum, my brother and I came along, they split up, and eventually he came back to the church and to his vocation.

Unfortunately my dad had a stroke when he was 48 and after he got back to the Church, re-discovered his priestly vocation, and went back to the seminary he found out that he couldn't do the studying anymore. He aced every subject he remembered from high school seminary (and the first year of college seminary) but learning the new things ate away all his energy (not to mention having two semi-grown children running around as well).

I have asked him several times how on earth he got through all this without becoming bitter - he is now sacristan at our Cathedral, visits a lot of elderly people, and tries to nudge our parish priest into proper liturgy, while he used to be a consultant psychologist.

His answer was that it's pretty simple, really: your vocation is a gift from God, as is everything about you, and all you can do is give it back.

(So. Yes. My dad is quite awesome. If only he picked up after himself )

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='trustandgratitude' post='1854248' date='May 1 2009, 09:40 AM']when is it time to give up on a vocation?[/quote]

my guess is, when more than one (3 seems like a good number) vocation director tell you it's not for you.. then when your spiritual director(s) confirms it and advises you need not try another community because of so-and-so concrete reasons. that would put me at rest, as i would not be relying on myself.

i read somewhere (i think from a Saint) that we should have our target set on consecrated life, and only under extraordinary signs from God do we then consider single/married life.

"One out of three

Men who understand this, as did St. John Bosco and St. Alphonsus Liguori, say: “In general, for every three children, there is one vocation!” That is more or less what Paul VI said above: “God calls innumerable batallions.”"

Edited May 4, 2009 by johnnydigit

[johnnydigit]

[quote name='johnnydigit' post='1856773' date='May 3 2009, 06:19 PM']i read somewhere (i think from a Saint) that we should have our target set on consecrated life, and only under extraordinary signs from God do we then consider single/married life.[/quote]

found out it was a Saint who inspired this, St. Thomas Aquinas:

"St. Thomas Aquinas (read the whole of Summa Theologica II-II, q. 189, a.10) tells us that [b]there must be more reasons for [i]not[/i] becoming a religious than [i]to[/i] become a religious.[/b]" from "Do I Have A Vocation?" By Fr. Ludovic-marie Barrielle, Chapter 5
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=93649"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=93649[/url]

===========================

and from Chapter 4 of the same,

"
Here is a very precious indicator. If someone does not have the dispositions required for a certain vocation, normally (barring a miracle) one can conclude that God does not call him… But be careful! God might be calling him to another vocation. But normally not to that vocation for which he does not have the required dispositions.

(Examples of the required dispositions: a minimum level of intelligence, if there are studies to be done; a minimum of health, if it is necessary to do missionary work; etc… and, for every vocation: To have common sense.)
3.

There should not be any counter-indicators.

In medicine there is a thing that one calls a “counter-indicator”; for example: if you have heart problems, you cannot be a pilot, a stevedore, etc.; if you have a bad liver, do not eat too much chocolate; if you have bad eyes, that is a counter-indicator for working on the railroad, and so on.

In like manner, there are “counter-indicators” for a vocation. There are some from the natural law; others are imposed by Canon Law. For example: a young man who is the sole support of his poor family, a man who has debts or pending lawsuits, cannot enter the novitiate without having settled these questions. An illegitimate son cannot be a priest. Nor can those with certain sicknesses, certain bodily defects, certain public faults, at least for some vocations. Nor can a young man who has certain habits that he cannot correct.

There is in this third sign an important eliminatory element that can shed light on the existence or absence of a vocation.
4.

You must, in giving yourself to God, accept the renouncements that the evangelical counsels require.

“It is much better not to vow,” says Ecclesiastes 5:4, “than after a vow not to perform the things promised.” Someone who does not want, for example, to observe chastity, poverty, or obedience, should not engage himself in the religious life. A man who has sinned against chastity must not advance before having corrected his wicked habit: “A long period of chastity,” says Saint Bernard, “is a second virginity.”
5.

Finally, you must find a Bishop or a Congregation that will accept you.

We have here the official sign of God’s call. If you cannot find any Bishop or any Congregation that will accept you, be at peace. It is a sign that God is not calling you.

Nevertheless, be careful! Let us not judge too quickly or too summarily. It is possible to be unfitting for one Congregation, yet succeed quite well in another. Likewise, those who judge in a single glance that a child does not have a vocation, can be mistaken. It is permissible to insist and try a vocation elsewhere. This is especially true if the subject has the four preceding signs.

For example: The story is told that a seminarian was sent home from the Minor Seminary for some sort of thoughtless act. The parish priest, knowing the child, sent him to an apostolic school where the young man made great progress, went on to the Major Seminary, and passed his theological courses. Ordained a priest, he soon became a prelate entrusted with high functions and one great day was made a Cardinal. According to the custom, his home diocese, honored to have one of her children clothed in the cardinal’s purple, made a great ceremony for him at the cathedral. A banquet followed which took place at the Minor Seminary. At the end of the meal, the new Cardinal asked the Superior there: “Could you bring me the admissions records?” and he read from a year long ago forgotten: “Pizzardo, sent away for lack of a vocation.” Then the Cardinal took out his pen and added with some humor: “And today, Cardinal of Holy Mother Church!” He was His Eminence Cardinal Pizzardo, today [1967] at the head of all the Seminaries and Catholic Universities of the world. The moral is that we must not judge too quickly. One can be deceived!

Canon Law reduces the signs of a vocation to four: 1) The right intention; 2) The call of the Bishop; 3) The required qualities; 4) The absence of any irregularity or impediment.
May one who fulfills these four conditions put himself forward without fear of being mistaken?
Yes! even if he does not have the desire to do so. (Obviously, it is different if there is question of an unconquerable repugnance or of a forced entry due to the pressure of a father or a godmother. In this case, the candidate does not fulfill the required conditions.) The wise theologian Noldin says: “Whoever is suitable and has the right intention, while aspiring to the priesthood, may present himself to the Bishop.”
"

Edited May 4, 2009 by johnnydigit