reyb Posted May 2, 2009 Posted May 2, 2009 In Luke 14:25-27 25 Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 "[color="#FF0000"]If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters — yes, even his own life — he cannot be my disciple. 27 And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple. [/color]NIV -------------------- What this verse mean to you?
KnightofChrist Posted May 2, 2009 Posted May 2, 2009 Put Christ above all other people, above all places, things, and even above your own life.
CatherineM Posted May 2, 2009 Posted May 2, 2009 This was Jesus' way of getting us to understand what a serious commitment discipleship is. It takes a complete surrender. Had he just said it would be hard, we would only think about the hardest thing we had yet faced in our life. Talking about giving up your family is a great way to really get us to understand how hard following him may become.
reyb Posted May 2, 2009 Author Posted May 2, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1854688' date='May 1 2009, 08:52 PM']Put Christ above all other people, above all places, things, and even above your own life.[/quote] In short, love God above everything. [quote name='CatherineM' post='1854691' date='May 1 2009, 08:55 PM']This was Jesus' way of getting us to understand what a serious commitment discipleship is. It takes a complete surrender. Had he just said it would be hard, we would only think about the hardest thing we had yet faced in our life. Talking about giving up your family is a great way to really get us to understand how hard following him may become.[/quote] ...meaning, 'Commitment of a disciple'. ---------------------- But why the word ‘hate’ was used by the writer?
KnightofChrist Posted May 2, 2009 Posted May 2, 2009 "Hate not"... The law of Christ does not allow us to hate even our enemies, much less our parents: but the meaning of the text is, that we must be in that disposition of soul, as to be willing to renounce, and part with every thing, how near or dear soever it may be to us, that would keep us from following Christ. [url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/49014.htm"]Source[/url]
reyb Posted May 2, 2009 Author Posted May 2, 2009 [quote name='Winchester' post='1854696' date='May 1 2009, 09:04 PM']Quit using the NIV.[/quote] Okay. Luke 14:25-27 [color="#FF0000"]Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them, 26 "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. 27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.[/color]NKJV
CatherineM Posted May 2, 2009 Posted May 2, 2009 The NKJV isn't much better. Use the RSV. It might not make a difference in this passage, but in more important ones, it certainly does.
reyb Posted May 2, 2009 Author Posted May 2, 2009 (edited) [quote name='CatherineM' post='1854711' date='May 1 2009, 09:33 PM']The NKJV isn't much better. Use the RSV. It might not make a difference in this passage, but in more important ones, it certainly does.[/quote] Thank you. But for a while I will use NKJV or any other version in Biblesoft because, I do not have soft copy of RSV. Edited May 2, 2009 by reyb
KnightofChrist Posted May 2, 2009 Posted May 2, 2009 [quote name='Winchester' post='1854717' date='May 1 2009, 09:38 PM']douay-rheims[/quote] Free Online Here. [url="http://www.drbo.org/"]http://www.drbo.org/[/url]
reyb Posted May 2, 2009 Author Posted May 2, 2009 Let us go back to our discussion, if this verse really means just to love God above everything or to show the seriousness of a disciple’s commitment. Why then the writer will use the word ‘hate’ instead of the above statement? Of course, it is not proper to say ‘love our enemies’ and ‘hate our families’. But, what is the reason. Why the writer used the word ‘hate’?
reyb Posted May 2, 2009 Author Posted May 2, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1854719' date='May 1 2009, 09:40 PM']Free Online Here. [url="http://www.drbo.org/"]http://www.drbo.org/[/url][/quote] Ty.
Winchester Posted May 2, 2009 Posted May 2, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1854719' date='May 1 2009, 09:40 PM']Free Online Here. [url="http://www.drbo.org/"]http://www.drbo.org/[/url][/quote] Awesome site. Have used it recently. I have the douay in hardcopy, as well. Not real hard. The pages are soft. The spine is hard, but I think that's due to the glue holding the pages in rigid position.
KnightofChrist Posted May 2, 2009 Posted May 2, 2009 [quote name='reyb' post='1854738' date='May 1 2009, 08:57 PM']Let us go back to our discussion, if this verse really means just to love God above everything or to show the seriousness of a disciple’s commitment. Why then the writer will use the word ‘hate’ instead of the above statement? Of course, it is not proper to say ‘love our enemies’ and ‘hate our families’. But, what is the reason. Why the writer used the word ‘hate’?[/quote] Post 6 has the answer.
CatherineM Posted May 2, 2009 Posted May 2, 2009 [quote name='reyb' post='1854738' date='May 1 2009, 08:57 PM']Let us go back to our discussion, if this verse really means just to love God above everything or to show the seriousness of a disciple’s commitment. Why then the writer will use the word ‘hate’ instead of the above statement? Of course, it is not proper to say ‘love our enemies’ and ‘hate our families’. But, what is the reason. Why the writer used the word ‘hate’?[/quote] I think he used the word hate to get our attention to the seriousness of the message.
eagle_eye222001 Posted May 2, 2009 Posted May 2, 2009 [quote name='reyb' post='1854738' date='May 1 2009, 09:57 PM']Let us go back to our discussion, if this verse really means just to love God above everything or to show the seriousness of a disciple’s commitment. Why then the writer will use the word ‘hate’ instead of the above statement? Of course, it is not proper to say ‘love our enemies’ and ‘hate our families’. But, what is the reason. Why the writer used the word ‘hate’?[/quote] When you translate, your translating ideas and sometimes words do not literally translate, or when you literally translate, you lose some of the meaning because different languages have different definitions for near near equivalent words. In short, the translator was trying to show ...as KnightofChrist, and CatherineM have explained, the seriousness of it. Was it the best way to translate it? Maybe not. Maybe it was. Consider the passage following the passage you pointed out. [i]27 No one who does not carry his cross and come after me can be my disciple. 28 'And indeed, which of you here, intending to build a tower, would not first sit down and work out the cost to see if he had enough to complete it? 29 Otherwise, if he laid the foundation and then found himself unable to finish the work, anyone who saw it would start making fun of him and saying, 30 "Here is someone who started to build and was unable to finish." 31 Or again, what king marching to war against another king would not first sit down and consider whether with ten thousand men he could stand up to the other who was advancing against him with twenty thousand? 32 If not, then while the other king was still a long way off, he would send envoys to sue for peace. [/i] Luke 14:27-32 Jesus is just talking in "parable" talk to show the seriousness with which one must follow him. If your still not satisfied with this, the next step would be to go look at the original language. ---------------- Now playing: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/linkin+park/track/with+you"]Linkin Park - With You[/url] via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url]
reyb Posted May 2, 2009 Author Posted May 2, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1854702' date='May 1 2009, 09:15 PM']"....... [b]but the meaning of the text is, that we must be in that disposition of soul, as to be willing to renounce, and part with every thing, how near or dear soever it may be to us, that would keep us from following Christ[/b]. [url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/49014.htm"]Source[/url][/quote] We can hear so many stories of this kind - ‘a son or a father leaves his family for his commitment to God’, although his family do not conform to such commitment - and usually it is the family who feels a little disappointed toward him. But I never heard anyone who left his family for such commitment, learn to hate his family and himself in following Christ.
KnightofChrist Posted May 2, 2009 Posted May 2, 2009 [quote name='reyb' post='1854782' date='May 1 2009, 10:24 PM']We can hear so many stories of this kind - ‘a son or a father leaves his family for his commitment to God’, although his family do not conform to such commitment - and usually it is the family who feels a little disappointed toward him. But I never heard anyone who left his family for such commitment, learn to hate his family and himself in following Christ.[/quote] So I clearly understand you hear many stories from the Bible about a son that leaves his family to be devoted to God. But you've never really seen it happen in real life?
reyb Posted May 2, 2009 Author Posted May 2, 2009 (edited) [quote name='CatherineM' post='1854746' date='May 1 2009, 10:00 PM']I think he used the word hate to get our attention to the seriousness of the message.[/quote] Obviously, it is one of the reasons - to get our attention to the seriousness of the message and our attention too in order to think about it because, if there is no word 'hate' in that verse, we have nothing to discuss. But the reason must be more than that because it has something to do with the 'cross of Christ' in the next verses. Edited May 2, 2009 by reyb
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