The Gospels

[Resurrexi]

. . .

[LouisvilleFan]

St. Matthew... if I recall correctly... I'm sure wikipedia knows.

P.S. What's the debate?

Edited May 2, 2009 by LouisvilleFan

[CatherineM]

My term paper was on the synoptic problem.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1855647' date='May 2 2009, 03:53 PM']St. Matthew... if I recall correctly... I'm sure wikipedia knows.

P.S. What's the debate?[/quote]

I wouldn't go to Wikipeida for information on the Bible, it's articles are often tainted with the heresy of modernism.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1855647' date='May 2 2009, 02:53 PM']P.S. What's the debate?[/quote]

He wants one of us to disagree with him, so that he can accuse us of being heretics.

[Resurrexi]

Well, it wouldn't be [i]heresy[/i] to say that St. Mark wrote his Gospel first. It would, however, be contradicting the decision of the CDF.

Edited May 2, 2009 by Resurrexi

[jeffpugh]

I heard St. John. Oh, and if you wanna keep your "Phatmasser", S'mores, you'd better not go picking fights.

[Resurrexi]

I've never heard [i]anyone[/i] say St. John was written first.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1855670' date='May 2 2009, 03:16 PM']Well, it wouldn't be [i]heresy[/i] to say that St. Mark wrote his Gospel first. It would, however, be contradicting the decision of the CDF.[/quote]



Pope Pius XXII's encyclical Divino Afflante Spiritu, allows for Catholic theologians to do modern biblical investigation. Vatican II's Dei Verbum went farther.

Frankly, it's not terribly important in the overall scheme of things. Whether you believe in the two-gospel or the two-document theory, it doesn't change a single thing about the theology of the Gospels. If you want a complete traddie point of view on the topic, perhaps you should read some Irenaeus. He even pre-dates the PBC by over 1700 years.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1855637' date='May 2 2009, 02:42 PM']. . .[/quote]


Mark

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1855700' date='May 2 2009, 03:02 PM']Pope Pius XXII's . . .[/quote]
I think that you mean . . . Pope Pius XII's . . .

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1855705' date='May 2 2009, 04:09 PM']I think that you mean . . . Pope Pius XII's . . .[/quote]

Guess my finger stuck on the keyboard one X too many.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1855707' date='May 2 2009, 03:11 PM']Guess my finger stuck on the keyboard one X too many.[/quote]
That happens. I have a wireless keyboard that loves to type on its own sometimes . . . adding or subtracting letters.

[Apotheoun]

I voted for [i]Mark[/i], but as far as I am concerned which Gospel was written first is not all that important.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1855700' date='May 2 2009, 05:02 PM']Pope Pius XXII's encyclical Divino Afflante Spiritu, allows for Catholic theologians to do modern biblical investigation. Vatican II's Dei Verbum went farther.[/quote]

Neither [i]Divino Afflante[/i] or [i]Dei Verbum[/i] (two magisterial documents of which I am very fond and which think to be very important) contradicted the previous decisions of the Holy Office, nor did they permit the contradicting of the Holy Office's decisions.

Edited May 2, 2009 by Resurrexi

[Hassan]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1855716' date='May 2 2009, 05:22 PM']Neither [i]Divino Afflante[/i] or [i]Dei Verbum[/i] (two magisterial documents of which I am very fond and which think to be very important) contradicted the previous decisions of the Holy Office, nor did they permit the contradicting of the Holy Office's decisions.[/quote]

well why don't you share which Gospel you believe was written first?

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1855717' date='May 2 2009, 05:24 PM']well why don't you share which Gospel you believe was written first?[/quote]

I give my religious assent to the decisions of the Biblical Commission of the Holy Office:

"Whether the opinion should be considered as sufficiently supported by the assent of tradition, which holds that Matthew preceded the other evangelists in his writing, and that he composed the first Gospel in the native language then employed by the Jews of Palestine, to whom that work was directed?--Reply: In the affirmative to both parts." (Denzinger-Schönmetzer 3562)

"Whether, with respect to the chronological order of the Gospels, it is right to withdraw from that opinion which, strengthened equally by the most ancient and continued testimony of tradition, testifies that Mark was the second in order to write and Luke the third, after Matthew, who was the first of all to write his Gospel in his native tongue; or, whether their opinion, which asserts that the Gospel was composed second and third before the Greek version of the first Gospel, is to be regarded in turn as in opposition to this idea?--Reply: In the negative to both parts." (Denzinger-Schönmetzer 3572)

Pope St. Pius X, in his motu proprio [i]Praestantia Scripturae[/i] decreed the following about the Biblical Commission:

"Therefore, we see that it must be declared and ordered as We do now declare and expressly order, that all are bound by the duty of conscience to submit to the decisions of the Biblical Pontifical Commission, both those which have thus far been published and those which will hereafter be proclaimed, just as to the decrees of the Sacred Congregations which pertain to doctrine and have been approved by the Pontiff; and that all who impugn such decisions as these by word or in writing cannot avoid the charge of disobedience, or on this account be free of grave sin; and this besides the scandal by which they offend, and the other matters for which they can be responsible before God, especially because of other pronouncements in these matters made rashly and erroneously." (Denzinger-Schönmetzer 3503)

Edited May 2, 2009 by Resurrexi

[Hassan]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1855723' date='May 2 2009, 05:45 PM']I give my religious assent to the decisions of the Biblical Commission of the Holy Office:

"Whether the opinion should be considered as sufficiently supported by the assent of tradition, which holds that Matthew preceded the other evangelists in his writing, and that he composed the first Gospel in the native language then employed by the Jews of Palestine, to whom that work was directed?--Reply: In the affirmative to both parts." (Denzinger-Schönmetzer 3562)

"Whether, with respect to the chronological order of the Gospels, it is right to withdraw from that opinion which, strengthened equally by the most ancient and continued testimony of tradition, testifies that Mark was the second in order to write and Luke the third, after Matthew, who was the first of all to write his Gospel in his native tongue; or, whether their opinion, which asserts that the Gospel was composed second and third before the Greek version of the first Gospel, is to be regarded in turn as in opposition to this idea?--Reply: In the negative to both parts." (Denzinger-Schönmetzer 3572)

Pope St. Pius X, in his motu proprio [i]Praestantia Scripturae[/i] decreed the following about the Biblical Commission:

"Therefore, we see that it must be declared and ordered as We do now declare and expressly order, that all are bound by the duty of conscience to submit to the decisions of the Biblical Pontifical Commission, both those which have thus far been published and those which will hereafter be proclaimed, just as to the decrees of the Sacred Congregations which pertain to doctrine and have been approved by the Pontiff; and that all who impugn such decisions as these by word or in writing cannot avoid the charge of disobedience, or on this account be free of grave sin; and this besides the scandal by which they offend, and the other matters for which they can be responsible before God, especially because of other pronouncements in these matters made rashly and erroneously." (Denzinger-Schönmetzer 3503)[/quote]


Are those infallible statments?

[Resurrexi]

No, the decisions by the Biblical Commission in my post above are not infallible, and cannot be infallible since there were not declarations of the Pope himself (or of an Ecumenical Council). Nevertheless, religious assent is owed to them.

Edited May 2, 2009 by Resurrexi

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1855725' date='May 2 2009, 03:47 PM']Are those infallible statments?[/quote]
No.

But there are a few people out there who think that the entire faith is contained in the [i]Enchiridion Symbolorum[/i].