KnightofChrist Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1860156' date='May 6 2009, 10:09 PM']I would say forcing priest and bishops to be cellibate espially since paul warns about it in timothy 4:1. Although it's not a doctrine and hopefully it change in the near future.[/quote] 1. Priest are not 'forced' to be celibate. 2. Paul and Christ support celibacy. Christ in Matthew 19:11-12: "Not all can accept this word, but only those to whom it is granted. Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; [b]some, because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of God. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it.[/b]" Paul in 1 Corinthians 7:27-34 "Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage... Those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that... The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided" -------------- Also, I honestly can not think of actual Church teachings I have trouble accepting. I do however have much difficultly in following what I know to be the truth and moral. Such as is the case with many lust.
Guest Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1860162' date='May 6 2009, 09:18 PM']1. Priest are not 'forced' to be celibate. 2. Paul and Christ support celibacy. Christ in Matthew 19:11-12: "Not all can accept this word, but only those to whom it is granted. Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; [b]some, because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of God. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it.[/b]" Paul in 1 Corinthians 7:27-34 "Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage... Those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that... The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided" --------------[/quote] Peace bro. Priest are forced to be celibate if they want to be a priest. It is my opinon they should have the option to marry if they choose as should a bishop. I respect your opinon though to. I also remember Paul saying that he had a right to a wife if he wanted to have one. And also that a bishop should be married only once. Now I dont twist that to say that they should have to be married like some anticatholic protestants do. But I do take it to say that they should have the right if they choose to. Godbless. Edited May 7, 2009 by Guest
Adrestia Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 [quote name='Aloysius' post='1859624' date='May 6 2009, 12:05 PM']one becomes Catholic not when one begins believing in every detail of the Church's teaching, but when one begins believing in the one and only detail of the Church's teaching that really matters: the teaching that the Church's teachings are protected by the Holy Ghost. That singular belief inspires the trusting humility with which you must approach every other teaching... and you'll come against ones that are difficult and you may not accept them at first, and you may not fully accept them ever. But one views the Church as the Body of Christ on Earth... one does not trust ones own self, but the Church; one does not rely on oneself, but on God Almighty. This teaches you the type of absolute dependence you have on God for salvation.[/quote] word. very eloquent.
CatherineM Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1860149' date='May 6 2009, 09:03 PM']Traditional minded men who feel a call to the priesthood should consider joining the [url="http://www.fssp.org/en/index.htm"]FSSP[/url], [url="http://www.institute-christ-king.org/home/"]The Institute of Christ the King[/url], or other traditional orders in union with the Holy Pontiff. Because there are good, legitimate concerns over much of the ambiguity within the documents of the Second Vatican Council.[/quote] Even traditional minded men have to be able to shepherd flocks in a charitable manner. The gentleman I was referring to believed that women who had abortions should never be allowed back in the church, no matter how sorry for their sins they were. He didn't believe that reconciliation should be open to them. He said he would never give absolution to someone who committed adultery or even to teenage boys who had masturbated. I don't think even the FSSP would agree with that theology.
KnightofChrist Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 [quote name='CatherineM' post='1860175' date='May 6 2009, 10:24 PM']Even traditional minded men have to be able to shepherd flocks in a charitable manner. The gentleman I was referring to believed that women who had abortions should never be allowed back in the church, no matter how sorry for their sins they were. He didn't believe that reconciliation should be open to them. He said he would never give absolution to someone who committed adultery or even to teenage boys who had masturbated. I don't think even the FSSP would agree with that theology.[/quote] To bad for him, but I was actually speaking to Resurrexi. Also I have no idea if Resurrexi has said the same things as the gentlemen you know.
KnightofChrist Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1860168' date='May 6 2009, 10:21 PM']Peace bro. Priest are forced to be celibate if they want to be a priest. It is my opinon they should have the option to marry if they choose as should a bishop. I respect your opinon though to. I also remember Paul saying that he had a right to a wife if he wanted to have one. And also that a bishop should be married only once. Now I dont twist that to say that they should have to be married like some anticatholic protestants do. But I do take it to say that they should have the right if they choose to. Godbless.[/quote] Actually no, they are not forced. If a man is called to Holy Matrimony, and the Priesthood, he can get married first, then join one of the rites of the Church that allows a married man to become a priest. The same flawed logic accuses the Church of forcing women to be second class by not allowing them to be priestess.
Nihil Obstat Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 For a long time, when I was more of a lukewarm cradle Catholic, I didn't understand the Church teachings on homosexuality. Now I know better. What I learned from it is that the teachings of the Church make perfect sense if you actually understand what people are trying to teach you. In some ways my faith developed because of how I was raised, and in a couple very specific ways, my faith developed in spite of how I was raised. That's neither here nor there, but it illustrates my point. For a while I 'didn't accept' certain teachings, but only because I didn't really truly understand what those teachings were. I have no idea if my experience is typical... but I don't think I'm all that out of the ordinary in terms of core personality, so I think some of my story is relevant to most people.
Resurrexi Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) [quote name='CatherineM' post='1860175' date='May 6 2009, 10:24 PM']Even traditional minded men have to be able to shepherd flocks in a charitable manner. The gentleman I was referring to believed that women who had abortions should never be allowed back in the church, no matter how sorry for their sins they were. He didn't believe that reconciliation should be open to them. He said he would never give absolution to someone who committed adultery or even to teenage boys who had masturbated. I don't think even the FSSP would agree with that theology.[/quote] Those are some very strange views, views which I've never known any traditionalist to hold. I don't hold views even remotely similar... And as KnightofChrist said, if I were to be called to the priesthood (if I'm considering anything of the sort, BTW, it'd be monastic life), I would doubtless apply to one of the numerous societies and institutes in full communion with the Supreme Pontiff that celebrate the liturgy in the extraordinary form. BTW, I never said that I didn't accept the doctrines taught at the Second Vatican Council, I said that I had trouble in the past doing so... Edited May 7, 2009 by Resurrexi
Guest Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1860186' date='May 6 2009, 10:32 PM']Actually no, they are not forced. If a man is called to Holy Matrimony, and the Priesthood, he can get married first, then join one of the rites of the Church that allows a married man to become a priest. The same flawed logic accuses the Church of forcing women to be second class by not allowing them to be priestess.[/quote] Ya but he can't be a roman catholic priest. That is what I am talking about. And I dont think my logic is flawed. And I dont think a woman should ever be a priest.
KnightofChrist Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1860199' date='May 6 2009, 10:38 PM']Ya but he can't be a roman catholic priest. That is what I am talking about. And I dont think my logic is flawed. And I dont think a woman should ever be a priest.[/quote] It is sorry.
Guest Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1860202' date='May 6 2009, 10:40 PM']It is sorry.[/quote] huh ?
Nihil Obstat Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 One of the first threads I started as a Phatmasser was one about celibacy in the priesthood. If this is what you're interested in, I'd very strongly suggest that you look into my archived topics and pick this one out. The responses on that thread resounded very strongly with me, and left me with no doubts whatsoever.
KnightofChrist Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1860204' date='May 6 2009, 10:41 PM']huh ?[/quote] Your logic is flawed. A man before he take his vows for the priesthood should know that God truly is calling him the be a priest of whatever rite he is to be a priest of, if he is a roman catholic and feels called to be both then he is simply not called to be a roman catholic priest, but perhaps another rite that does allow married men to become priest.
Guest Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1860205' date='May 6 2009, 09:43 PM']One of the first threads I started as a Phatmasser was one about celibacy in the priesthood. If this is what you're interested in, I'd very strongly suggest that you look into my archived topics and pick this one out. The responses on that thread resounded very strongly with me, and left me with no doubts whatsoever.[/quote] Well I have doubts because one paul warns about it in timothy 4 - 1. Second Paul does say how celibacy is a good thing but he also makes it very clear to say that he has the right to a wife. Nowhere is it said that priest and bishops should not be able to have wives if they so desire. Edited May 7, 2009 by Guest
Nihil Obstat Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Actually, I have to apologize. I just looked at it myself and this isn't the thread I remembered. There were only a few responses on that one... but I know there was a different thread somewhere else, and I can think of some specific things that were said....... Well it exists somewhere in cyberspace anyway. Sorry.
Guest Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1860206' date='May 6 2009, 09:44 PM']Your logic is flawed. A man before he take his vows for the priesthood should know that God truly is calling him the be a priest of whatever rite he is to be a priest of, if he is a roman catholic and feels called to be both then he is simply not called to be a roman catholic priest, but perhaps another rite that does allow married men to become priest.[/quote] ok well if were going to play like that, then I think your logic is " sorry " as well. Edited May 7, 2009 by Guest
KnightofChrist Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 [quote name='Delivery Boy' post='1860207' date='May 6 2009, 10:45 PM']Well I have doubts because one paul warns about it in timoty 4 - 1. Second Paul does say how celibacy is a good thing but he also makes it very clear to say that he has the right to a wife. Nowhere is it said that priest and bishops should not be able to have wives if they so desire.[/quote] Right and if a man feels he wants to be married and be a priest he can, there is no real problem.
Nihil Obstat Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 AHA! I figured it out. I just remembered that I double posted that topic by accident. One of them recieved more replies than the other. This is the one I was thinking about. [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=81678&hl="]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...c=81678&hl=[/url]
Guest Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1860210' date='May 6 2009, 09:46 PM']Right and if a man feels he wants to be married and be a priest he can, there is no real problem.[/quote] The problem is paul says the spirit explicitly says in the last times some will depart from the faith and they will forbidd marriage. Now i'm not throwing nobody under the bus or saying that does the church in. All i'm saying is it's my opinon roman catholic priest and bishops should be able to marry if they so desire. I am allowed to have an opinon. Edited May 7, 2009 by Guest
Nihil Obstat Posted May 7, 2009 Posted May 7, 2009 Seriously, so that we don't hijack this thread, check out the link I posted.
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