Submitting To Church Teachings

[franciscanheart]

[size=3][mod]this thread has been split. please see the new thread in the debate table for the homosexuality & the priesthood debates.

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=93925"]see the topic by clicking here[/url][/mod][/size]

[havok579257]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1864661' date='May 11 2009, 10:48 PM']Compared to what many girls wear outside of school (for example, a mini-skirt and a halter top), the knee-length skirt and long sleeved shirt are no occasion of sin, at least to most people.[/quote]

Long sleeves are not on all uniforms. They offer short sleeves for summerspring time.

Now we are comparing things to each other to determine what is a near occasion to sin? Fact is, the classic school girl outfit is a big seller on adult costume sites. Its also pushed huge in the porn industry. Girls in their 20's are made to look like they just turned 18 or look like they are not even 18 yet. Its pushed huge in general society. Yet your going to say someone looking at a high school girl(almost of legal age) in a catholic school girl uniform is not going to bring lust on and is not an occassion to sin? Dude, what fantasy land do you live in? If female swimwear can be considered a near occasion to sin, you better believe a teenage girl in a school girl outfit is a near occasion to sin.

[havok579257]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1863965' date='May 11 2009, 12:08 AM']Many people automatically believe that men who are paralyzed can't have sex. Not true at all. In fact, because of a strange twist of spinal nerve physiology, a quadriplegic can often be completely functional, where a paraplegic has much more difficulty because of catheters rather than impotence. If a marriage can't be consummated, then the priest isn't supposed to marry them. Most priests, don't ask because they don't want to be put in a bad situation. When one does, it often leads to bad press and lots of hard feelings. When I was brought in to negotiate in such a case, we worked out an arrangement where the marriage was consummated in the doctor's office. That's also how the ended up conceiving their children. It was completely natural, but they needed the doctor's help with the catheter, and setting up some equipment they needed.

A completely impotent man, can not marry in the church.[/quote]


I got a quick question on this. Why can a man who can not have sex not be sacramentally married to a women? Don't we believe Mary never had sex with Joesph? Yet we don't treat Mary as an un-married women. So why if Mary never had sex while married, must the church demand it of everyone it marries?

[CatherineM]

[quote name='havok579257' post='1864755' date='May 11 2009, 11:38 PM']I got a quick question on this. Why can a man who can not have sex not be sacramentally married to a women? Don't we believe Mary never had sex with Joesph? Yet we don't treat Mary as an un-married women. So why if Mary never had sex while married, must the church demand it of everyone it marries?[/quote]

Short answer would be that Mary and Joseph weren't married in the Catholic Church. I realize that is kind of a cop out. In the marriage tribunal, we were required to assume consummation until we had evidence otherwise. Sometimes it is the woman who can not physically have sex. There can be congenital issues, or some cancer surgeries as the cause. Sometimes even psychological issues can come into play. My mother in law refused my father in law for the first five years of their marriage. He stuck it out. A lot of men wouldn't have. Mary and Joseph could have consummated, but didn't. That was their choice. Marriage is the only sacrament that is conferred not by a priest, but by the couple themselves on each other. It is about giving each other everything. If sex can't happen, then you can give everything necessary for a marriage. Mary and Joseph could have given each other everything, but chose not to.

[havok579257]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1864778' date='May 12 2009, 12:51 AM']Short answer would be that Mary and Joseph weren't married in the Catholic Church. I realize that is kind of a cop out. In the marriage tribunal, we were required to assume consummation until we had evidence otherwise. Sometimes it is the woman who can not physically have sex. There can be congenital issues, or some cancer surgeries as the cause. Sometimes even psychological issues can come into play. My mother in law refused my father in law for the first five years of their marriage. He stuck it out. A lot of men wouldn't have. Mary and Joseph could have consummated, but didn't. That was their choice. Marriage is the only sacrament that is conferred not by a priest, but by the couple themselves on each other. It is about giving each other everything. If sex can't happen, then you can give everything necessary for a marriage. Mary and Joseph could have given each other everything, but chose not to.[/quote]


But I thought a marriage is not allowed if a couple never intends to have sex? I thought the church only allows marriage through the catholic church if

a. the couple can have sex
b. the couple plan on having sex

If a couple can still be married even thoguh they plan on never having sex, what difference is it for somoene who can't?

Also who Mary, the mother of Jesus not be allowed to marry in the catholic church then? Would the chruch deny her marriage?

This just seems like a crazy rule to me cosnidering Mary never had sex with JOesph. Mary did everything that God wanted, but am I to understand, the church says her marriage would not be acceptable had she been married in a catholic church?