Hassan Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1865269' date='May 12 2009, 12:46 PM']I find it odd that these protesters focused on only one aspect of the Pro-Life movement: abortion. Judging by the graphic nature of their protest, I assume they only focused on abortion because of the shock value. I mean, Obama is also for embryonic stem cells and euthanasia (if I am not mistaken). Why not make picket signs regarding these issues as well? I definitely agree that the methods of this protest, and others like it, are inappropriate and won't convince ANYONE that abortion is evil. Just like those PETA folks who chain themselves to dog houses along the side of the street to protest kennels. No one takes them seriously. [/quote] It's sure to get the old carpetbagger the adoration of the far right. Which I suspect is what he wants. Good for him for putting some action behind his words though I guess.
Apotheoun Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 The right to private property -- according to the Tradition of the Church -- is a relative good; while the defense of innocent human life is a universal good, because the right to life of every innocent human being is the source of all other human rights.
Hassan Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1865275' date='May 12 2009, 01:52 PM']The right to private property -- according to the Tradition of the Church -- is a relative good; while the defense of innocent human life is a universal good, because the right to life of every innocent human being is the source of all other human rights.[/quote] Do sny action I can tie in with opposing abortion will trump private property rights in the eyes of the Church?
HisChildForever Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1865279' date='May 12 2009, 01:56 PM']Do sny action I can tie in with opposing abortion will trump private property rights in the eyes of the Church?[/quote] Yeah seriously. What about the man who drove his truck into the Planned Parenthood. Could you imagine if someone was coming out and he killed them? What if that individual was a pregnant woman who had decided NOT to get an abortion.
Jaime Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1865250' date='May 12 2009, 01:31 PM']. [/quote] promoting smoking isn't helpful either
Hassan Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 [quote name='hot stuff' post='1865286' date='May 12 2009, 01:01 PM']promoting smoking isn't helpful either[/quote] What if she's smoking to end abortion?
HisChildForever Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 [quote name='hot stuff' post='1865286' date='May 12 2009, 02:01 PM']promoting smoking isn't helpful either[/quote] It's just a chill face, I don't smoke.
ariaane Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 Just so you all know, Alan Keyes did an interview days ago announcing to all that he [b]planned [/b]to protest at Notre Dame with the [b]intent[/b] of being arrested. The arrest isn't some spontaneous event... Google search this if you wish.
TotusTuusMaria Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law. - Martin Luther King, Jr. It isn't always about changing peoples minds about abortion. If that happens that is good, but yeah it is unlikely. However, in this case, if enough people showed up and the alumni boycotted this place, then there could be a mind change. If people were showing up (like these men/women did) by the thousands and being hauled off to jail and "arousing the conscience" of the school then it could change the minds of those higher-ups in the school that, through their approval, are allowing Obama to come and are giving him an award "of law." What kind of protest is "approved" by the one you are protesting? It is insane. I agree that one should be lawful and peaceful, but... it is noble what they did. There was no hope for them to arouse the conscience of the campus miles from the heart of the campus on some lone sidewalk where no one but a handful of students and faculty could possibly see them.
TotusTuusMaria Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1865283' date='May 12 2009, 01:59 PM']Yeah seriously. What about the man who drove his truck into the Planned Parenthood. Could you imagine if someone was coming out and he killed them? What if that individual was a pregnant woman who had decided NOT to get an abortion.[/quote] That can't be compared. He was placing others in harm, like you said. Walking on private property and driving your vehicle through the building (enough to kill someone) just cannot be both compared. He would be harming someone which has the possibility of being equal to the sin of abortion. Edited May 12, 2009 by TotusTuusMaria
KnightofChrist Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 [quote name='HisChildForever' post='1865269' date='May 12 2009, 12:46 PM']I find it odd that these protesters focused on only one aspect of the Pro-Life movement: abortion. Judging by the graphic nature of their protest, I assume they only focused on abortion because of the shock value. I mean, Obama is also for embryonic stem cells and euthanasia (if I am not mistaken). Why not make picket signs regarding these issues as well? I definitely agree that the methods of this protest, and others like it, are inappropriate and won't convince ANYONE that abortion is evil. Just like those PETA folks who chain themselves to dog houses along the side of the street to protest kennels. No one takes them seriously. [/quote] Idk, I think their against the murder of children in general, their against all forms of murder of the unborn.
Hassan Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 [quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1865294' date='May 12 2009, 01:07 PM']That can't be compared. He was placing others in harm, like you said. Walking on private property and driving your vehicle through the building (enough to kill someone) just cannot be both compared.[/quote] What if he did it at night? When it was closed?
KnightofChrist Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1865296' date='May 12 2009, 02:08 PM']What if he did it at night? When it was closed?[/quote] He didn't illrelevant.
Apotheoun Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Hassan' post='1865279' date='May 12 2009, 11:56 AM']Do sny action I can tie in with opposing abortion will trump private property rights in the eyes of the Church?[/quote] The Church has always held that private property is only a relative good, and that for good cause one can infringe upon that right (e.g., if you and your family are starving you can steal excess food from a farmer). Edited May 12, 2009 by Apotheoun
TotusTuusMaria Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Hassan' post='1865296' date='May 12 2009, 02:08 PM']What if he did it at night? When it was closed?[/quote] There can always be someone in there. You just don't know. There is no way to ever know if the building has no one in it, and without full knowledge, in my opinion, you can't morally do something so drastic that has the possibility of harming people. and there is the right to property.. like apo says. when abortions are going on though... although i do remain on the sidewalk and obey the law (because you have to pick your battles) I don't see anything wrong with someone trying to go in there to stop the wrong like in the instance a couple weeks ago where this girls friend went up the stairs after we shared Scripture with her (where she was not allowed to go) and basically rampaged the place looking for her sister. She got her sister off the table and they left the place. That would be against the law, I believe... to do something like that. However, she did it and I think it was right and moral. Edited May 12, 2009 by TotusTuusMaria
Didymus Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 [quote name='Apotheoun' post='1865267' date='May 12 2009, 01:46 PM']Sometimes radical steps must be taken in order to defend the truth; for as the Apostles said in response to the command of the high priest not to preach about Christ, "We must obey God rather than men."[/quote] By radical steps, you are referring to pushing a spongebob stroller around on campus at Notre Dame?? Keyes has gone Looney Tunes on us. He was already quite embarrassing since his ridiculous campaign against Obama in 04. Now he's just insane, and it's making us look stupid..
Apotheoun Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 [quote name='Didymus' post='1865306' date='May 12 2009, 12:13 PM']By radical steps, you are referring to pushing a spongebob stroller around on campus at Notre Dame??[/quote] No, the radical step I was referring to, which I thought was pretty clear from my posts, was his ignoring the private property rights of Notre Dame University.
ariaane Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 [quote name='Didymus' post='1865306' date='May 12 2009, 08:13 PM']Keyes has gone Looney Tunes on us. He was already quite embarrassing since his ridiculous campaign against Obama in 04. Now he's just insane, and it's making us look stupid..[/quote] Ditto.
TotusTuusMaria Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) it was ridiculous, however what he did was noble. noble: ignoring property rights Edited May 12, 2009 by TotusTuusMaria
Apotheoun Posted May 12, 2009 Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Didymus' post='1865306' date='May 12 2009, 12:13 PM']Now he's just insane, and it's making us look stupid..[/quote] I would rather look stupid as a fool for Christ, than really be stupid by supporting what our country's mainstream media holds to be intelligent. Edited May 12, 2009 by Apotheoun
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