Pretty Much Impossible Morally Problematic Situation

[icelandic_iceskater]

So I realize that this situation is impossible, what with all the marriage prep couples have to go through and whatnot. But let us pretend that none of that exists.

Here's the scenario:

Cynthia and Steve are engaged to be married.

Awhile years back, Steve struggled with a drinking/drug problem that led to him being abusive to a past girlfriend. He has since gone to rehab and has been 100% clean for 5 or so years. He is now a good catholic. He talked to those who knew about it and asked them to promise that this may never leave their small circle, and they all gave their word.

Now Steve has no intention of telling his fiance of his problem. Steve's brother John is aware of this and is worried about allowing Cynthia to go into this marriage unaware of Steve's supposedly past problem.

Does John have the obligation, or even the right, to tell Cynthia?

And if he doesn't and his problem resurfaced, could this be grounds for a declaration of nullity? Would John be allowing Cynthia and Steve to go into a marriage that isn't total?

[ariaane]

This is going to sound harsh but it needs to be said.

This Steve is a gutless wonder who clearly is putting his wants before the needs of a woman he claims to love.

People say that “Once an alcoholic then always an alcoholic”. Well I’m not so sure if that is [i]fully[/i] true, but it isn’t news that many recovering alcoholics turn back to drink, in particular in traumatic situations.

[b]The fact that he has been abusive to women[/b] in the past is the most important reason why his fiancé needs to know.

[b]If he won’t tell her, then I strongly suggest you tell Cynthia.[/b]

If they do get married and then have children, and he goes back to his alcoholic ways and places Cynthia into a situation of domestic violence, what impact do you think it will have on her kids?

Circumvent all the (probable) future drama that may involve vulnerable young children and tell Cynthia yourself if Steve won’t.

If things go pear shaped or she ends up seriously [b]injured or even dead[/b] in future, just imagine how you’ll feel knowing that you could have done something to prevent it all from happening.

And yes, not revealing something like alcoholism and domestic abuse can and is a common ground for annulment.

[Archaeology cat]

To the OP, I wouldn't say that it's an impossible situation. Some dioceses require more marriage prep than others, really. If he is deliberately withholding this info from his fiance, that's a problem. You should be completely open and honest with the person you are marrying. If he won't tell her, then yes, the brother, or someone else who knows, should. What you are describing is a serious situation that could definitely affect her decision to marry him.

[quote name='ariaane' post='1867137' date='May 14 2009, 04:01 PM']People say that “Once an alcoholic then always an alcoholic”. Well I’m not so sure if that is [i]fully[/i] true, but it isn’t news that many recovering alcoholics turn back to drink, in particular in traumatic situations.[/quote]
The temptation, I'm sure, will always be there. A man I know has been sober for at least 20 years, but he still goes to AA at least on occasion.

[Didacus]

Steve is obviously not ready to get married - point blank.

IMO, this is a valid objection to the marriage. How to go about the objection, is another story all together.

I would NOT give my word to hide this truth in the first place, but would make my position clear to Steve from the start.

[thessalonian]

It is John's place to STRONGLY encourage his brother to tell. I lean toward him telling Cynthia if that does not work. Why? First of all it is critical info to her decision. An important, irreversible decision. Secondly, because there is a problem of oppenness and honesty already, before the marriage that needs to be addressed and may prevent the validity of the marriage. If Cynthia truly loves Steve and he, her, they should be able to work through her knowing. If not then they shouldn't be getting married in the first place. I don't know whether or not an anullment would be granted later or not. There are certainly issues here that would play a role in the decision.

Edited May 14, 2009 by thessalonian

[CatherineM]

Even without marriage prep, there is still the paperwork to fill out with the priest, and there is a line on there about past abuse issues. He leaves that blank, and it is grounds for an annulment later. That's how my husband got his first marriage annulled, she lied about past abuse issues, and had the priest known, he would certainly have required additional counseling before signing off.

[Dan]

"He is now a good catholic. He talked to those who knew about it and asked them to promise that this may never leave their small circle, and they all gave their word."

----

Really??

A good catholic would not lie ( by omission ) to his intended.

Cynthia must be told. She must be made aware of any issue which affects the marriage. If not, her marriage would be invalid as information which would afect her decision ( not that she would not go through with the marriage ) was withheld from her.

He has an additional issue. By telling his small circle not to tell, he is making them complicit in the deception.

How will "Bob" ( one of the small circle ) react when Cynthia comes to him with one eye nearly closed due to the black and blue, with 6 of her teeth in her hand, and on one leg as the other had been abused / broken, and he tells her, "I knew about it, but kept silent."

Just a simple question: Would a priest "approve" of his hiding this sort of information? If yes, then there is no issue, if no....




Yup, he is "a good catholic".


As an aside, I have been sober for over 16 years. An alkie / addict is never cured, each of us simply has a daily reprieve.

God gave me the gift of sobriety, what I do with it is my gift to God.

Edited May 14, 2009 by Dan

[Didacus]

[quote name='Dan' post='1867259' date='May 14 2009, 02:20 PM'][snip]

God gave me the gift of sobriety, what I do with it is my gift to God.[/quote]

I like that.

Source?

Did you come up with it yourself?

Mind if I use it? Could be useful in my plot for world domination.

[Dan]

[quote name='Didacus' post='1867319' date='May 14 2009, 03:23 PM']I like that.

Source?

Did you come up with it yourself?

Mind if I use it? Could be useful in my plot for world domination.[/quote]


It is mine. I own the rights to it. I hold the copyright.

Let me see....

If I can get a huge percentage of the fruits of your world domination, I may consider renting it to you....

Until then, feel free to use it and we will settle the debt once you control the planet.

[CatherineM]

In moral theology we are always dealing with these kinds of scenarios. The one that really stands out to me was a situation with a man who had "played" with SSA as a youth, but had long ago put that behind him, and had no attraction for the same sex remaining. In marriage prep, he had asked his pastor if he had to disclose to his wife to be. Normally the priest would have said yes, because at the very least, he needed to be tested for STD's. In this case however, the woman had a deep seated fear/dislike of homosexuals because her father had divorced her mother to live with another man. The priest said if he had any lingering SSA he had to disclose, but if not, it would only hurt the relationship for no good purpose.

It's kind of like when dealing with people who have extensive sexual pasts. You're told that you should disclose that you have such a past, but the particulars are best left out of the discussion because having your wife/husband to be have those images in their heads during your marriage can harm it in the long run. Abuse or addictions issues though are different because even when you have conquered them for some time, the stress of a new marriage is just the kind of stress that can bring them back to the surface.

[ariaane]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1867339' date='May 14 2009, 10:13 PM']In moral theology we are always dealing with these kinds of scenarios. The one that really stands out to me was a situation with a man who had "played" with SSA as a youth, but had long ago put that behind him, and had no attraction for the same sex remaining. In marriage prep, he had asked his pastor if he had to disclose to his wife to be. Normally the priest would have said yes, because at the very least, he needed to be tested for STD's. In this case however, the woman had a deep seated fear/dislike of homosexuals because her father had divorced her mother to live with another man. The priest said if he had any lingering SSA he had to disclose, but if not, it would only hurt the relationship for no good purpose.[/quote]

I’ll have to disagree with you on this one.

A man who has had sex with another man, no matter how long ago, has an obligation to tell his wife before she comes home one day to find her husband getting friendly with Tom.

[b]Experimentation with homosexuality is different for men and women. Sexuality with women has been proven to be more fluid, whereas with men it is more fixed. [/b]

Honestly, if people would just be honest about these things during their dating period, having to discern right just before the point of exchanging vows whether you should spill the beans or not about "x, y and z", would not even be an issue.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='ariaane' post='1867348' date='May 14 2009, 03:35 PM']I’ll have to disagree with you on this one.

A man who has had sex with another man, no matter how long ago, has an obligation to tell his wife before she comes home one day to find her husband getting friendly with Tom.

[b]Experimentation with homosexuality is different for men and women. Sexuality with women has been proven to be more fluid, whereas with men it is more fixed. [/b]

Honestly, if people would just be honest about these things during their dating period, having to discern right just before the point of exchanging vows whether you should spill the beans or not about "x, y and z", would not even be an issue.[/quote]


I didn't say I agreed with this. I was just relating a discussion we had with our moral theology professor. I think I pretty much told my husband everything I had ever done in my life before we got engaged. It was very much like the scene in Goonies with Chunk and the blender.

[Didacus]

[quote name='Dan' post='1867321' date='May 14 2009, 03:29 PM']It is mine. I own the rights to it. I hold the copyright.

Let me see....

If I can get a huge percentage of the fruits of your world domination, I may consider renting it to you....

Until then, feel free to use it and we will settle the debt once you control the planet.[/quote]

How would you like to have the Yukon? Its very interesting during its three weeks of summer!

thanks for the permission, its attributation in short 'Dan' makes it easy to use.

[Formosus]

Honesty is the best policy as the saying goes. Here it is no different. The husband to be has a firm moral obligation to disclose to his fiance all this information. How can it be a marriage if he is not willing to share these great struggles with his wife? Man and woman become of one flesh, so the man takes upon himself the wife's struggles and the wife takes upon herself the man's struggles. Just my two cents.

[LouisvilleFan]

John needs to tell Steve that the Church doesn't allow gay marriage, so if he doesn't grow a pair, there's gonna be a little problem.