Answering Angels & Demons

[Hassan]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1868453' date='May 15 2009, 11:06 PM']That's interesting...
...What I'm getting at though, is this:

Dan Brown is against Catholicism. That's a given. Therefore I think it's safe to assume that there are anti Catholic biases in his work. With that assumption, I'd prefer to dig deeper than the more obvious themes and try to find what's actually being communicated. Know what I mean?[/quote]
You mean digging around in the movie to see what you can possibly take as "anti Catholic"?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1868457' date='May 15 2009, 11:10 PM']You mean digging around in the movie to see what you can possibly take as "anti Catholic"?[/quote]
Did I say that? I don't recall it.

If you're talking to a person that you know for a fact hates you, and you happen to come across them while they're talking in a group of people who also don't like you, and that person turns around and says something outwardly rather pleasant, are you going to assume right away that there's nothing you might be missing?

Sorry, that's an awkward analogy. I'm pulled in a bunch of directions at once right now.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1868453' date='May 16 2009, 12:06 AM']That's interesting...
...What I'm getting at though, is this:

Dan Brown is against Catholicism. That's a given. Therefore I think it's safe to assume that there are anti Catholic biases in his work. With that assumption, I'd prefer to dig deeper than the more obvious themes and try to find what's actually being communicated. Know what I mean?[/quote]

As explained, the only blatant bias I could find against the Church was through Robert's character. The [i]purpose[/i] of the story focuses on the stereotypical "religion versus science" debate. The [i]point[/i] of the story stresses the importance of religion and science working together, that they do not HAVE to be mutually exclusive.

There was one discrepancy I found, however, that CAN be directly attributed to Dan Brown. While trying to save the third cardinal, Robert and the authorities are ambushed (for lack of a better word). Robert ducks for cover and hides under the elevated glass coffin of an incorruptible saint. He kicks through grating and slips beneath the Church into a crypt. The camera pans the Church and focuses on how it has become ruined by a fire which was set by the bad guy. Something happened with the saint's coffin, I think the glass was shattered by bullets. In any event, she is briefly on camera and the fire is melting the hot wax which has been put over her preserved body. Now my understanding is that SOME of the incorruptible saints ARE coated with a thin layer of wax. The movie, however, shows a fairly decayed face behind the wax - as if she is really corruptible after all, and that man - not God - has preserved her.

Is that the sort of thing you were looking for? In all honesty I was scrutinizing the film to pick up on things like this, and this was the only blatant discrepancy I could find.

[BG45]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1868457' date='May 16 2009, 01:10 AM']You mean digging around in the movie to see what you can possibly take as "anti Catholic"?[/quote]

I don't think he does dig around given his earlier comment.

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1868432' date='May 16 2009, 12:57 AM'](I haven't read the books or seen the movies.)[/quote]

Edited May 16, 2009 by BG45

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1868462' date='May 15 2009, 11:15 PM']Is that the sort of thing you were looking for? In all honesty I was scrutinizing the film to pick up on things like this, and this was the only blatant discrepancy I could find.[/quote]
Like I said, I wouldn't know exactly what I'm looking for... but a person who's hardline anti-Catholic is going to tend not to write things particularly friendly towards the Church.
I hear that was toned down for the movie though, so people more qualified than me have to analyze it.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1868471' date='May 16 2009, 12:21 AM']Like I said, I wouldn't know exactly what I'm looking for... but a person who's hardline anti-Catholic is going to tend not to write things particularly friendly towards the Church.
I hear that was toned down for the movie though, so people more qualified than me have to analyze it.[/quote]

A lot was missing from the movie that would upset the Catholics - no references were made to In Vitro, nor was the subplot of the Pope fathering an illegitimate child via In Vitro mentioned.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1868408' date='May 15 2009, 11:48 PM']You cannot quote a newspaper that is run by a layman and is not an official organ of the Vatican and say that the Vatican has said anything.[/quote]

I think I can when the USCCB site quotes the same layman.

[Nihil Obstat]

I hear one of the actors refused to do the movie until he read the script and realized that some of the worst stuff was cut out.

Do any of you think there is any danger in people enjoying the movie, then going to buy the book and really getting hit with the anti Catholic themes?

[Brigid]

I saw it today as well. I'm going to back up HCF on this one. The overall tone of the movie, in my opinion, was not anti-Catholic, and for the most part showed the Church in a good light. There were a few exceptions, but it had to do more with the people themselves than the people in their positions in the Church.

I haven't read the book, so that might be different, but from just seeing the movie I didn't get a negative image of the Church. There was actually a lot of positive and correct things they said in the movie about faith that surprised me, like the one HCF mentioned.

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1868485' date='May 16 2009, 12:33 AM']I hear one of the actors refused to do the movie until he read the script and realized that some of the worst stuff was cut out.

Do any of you think there is any danger in people enjoying the movie, then going to buy the book and really getting hit with the anti Catholic themes?[/quote]

It has been a few years since I read the book so I can not answer with complete accuracy, but the In Vitro was the hugest issue from what I can remember - and this was not in the movie as I mentioned.

[quote name='Brigid' post='1868486' date='May 16 2009, 12:33 AM']I saw it today as well. I'm going to back up HCF on this one. The overall tone of the movie, in my opinion, was not anti-Catholic, and for the most part showed the Church in a good light. There were a few exceptions, but it had to do more with the people themselves than the people in their positions in the Church.

I haven't read the book, so that might be different, but from just seeing the movie I didn't get a negative image of the Church. There was actually a lot of positive and correct things they said in the movie about faith that surprised me, like the one HCF mentioned.[/quote]

Very well said.

[Spence06]

I saw the movie tonight and I enjoyed it. I plan on reading the book but wanted to see the movie first.

I really want to find that quote at the end of the movie from the Cardinal. I really liked it I just wish I knew what he said. I enjoyed the movie though, thought it was fun to watch. You have an thing, like the Catholic Church who has been involved in so much in the world's history, for ill and good, your going to be put out there and written about and not just in positive light. I don't think bringing out the banners or anti-catholic chants are the answer. I was talking at mass today and said I planned on watching it and my friend couldn't believe it thought I was giving Satan himself money. It gets people talking and that is a good thing. Your going to have the potential to reach many people and the idea the church was corrupt 400 years ago is not anything new or in some ways, not too far fetched.


I think its good people to talk about these things but to engage it with more then simply condemning would work a little better in my mind.

Erin!
Hope your enjoying your summer!!

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Spence06' post='1869123' date='May 16 2009, 11:17 PM']Erin!
Hope your enjoying your summer!![/quote]

Thanks Neil, I hope you are too! I'm glad you liked the movie. In fact there were a couple of promising trailers, LOL.

[Norseman82]

I did not read the book, but I saw the movie tonight, since the USCCB rated it L instead of O. With the exception of some of the internal Vatican scheming and violence, I saw very few anti-Catholic messages in the movie (those being the historical inaccuracies regarding the Illuminati and Galileo). To me, it was mostly an action-packed thriller with a lot of twists and turns that actually had some messages that cast the Church in a positive light. And the last scene reminded me of how God used Cyrus of Persia to free Israel from Babylon.

Interestingly enough, the girl I've been dating was commenting on the science aspect of it, since she actually was a physicist at the CERN lab in Geneva.

[kujo]

Yeah I saw it and thought that, overall, it was a good film with a good message. In fact, I felt that that message (the need for the coexistence of science and religion) hearkened me back to JP2's [i]Fides et Ratio[/i].

[Norseman82]

[quote name='kujo' post='1873705' date='May 23 2009, 12:21 AM']Yeah I saw it and thought that, overall, it was a good film with a good message. In fact, I felt that that message (the need for the coexistence of science and religion) hearkened me back to JP2's [i]Fides et Ratio[/i].[/quote]

That's exactly what I was thinking, too.