Death Wins Again

[Brother Adam]

With the lack of any real action on the behalf of US bishops, Obama strikes a deep blow against the US Church, rendering her effectively neutered on the national culture war.

[quote]President Obama used the controversy surrounding his Notre Dame address Sunday as a class lesson on the need to bridge cultural divides in America, as he urged graduates to seek common ground with their peers on hot-button issues.

Protesters in the crowd sporadically interrupted Obama's commencement address before they were shouted down by the rest of the graduates.

But Obama called for "open hearts, open minds, fair-minded words" in the midst of such lasting debates.

He said the issue of abortion stands as the single greatest example of a controversy that tests Americans' ability to respectfully seek common ground.

"I do not suggest that the debate surrounding abortion can or should go away. Because no matter how much we may want to fudge it -- indeed, while we know that the views of most Americans on the subject are complex and even contradictory -- the fact is that at some level, the views of the two camps are irreconcilable," Obama said.

"Each side will continue to make its case to the public with passion and conviction. But surely we can do so without reducing those with differing views to caricature," he said.

The president spoke after receiving an honorary law degree from the university. This move by Notre Dame triggered more protest than its decision to invite him to speak.

Notre Dame President Rev. John Jenkins earlier defended the university's decision to invite Obama and honor him with a degree.

"We honor all people of good will who have come to this discussion respectfully and out of deeply held conviction," he said.[/quote]

[Hassan]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1869560' date='May 17 2009, 04:26 PM']With the lack of any real action on the behalf of US bishops, Obama strikes a deep blow against the US Church, rendering her effectively neutered on the national culture war.[/quote]


And Brother Adam once again demonstrates his deep love of hyperbole

[Nihil Obstat]

Did Obama say anything of substance in the entire speech? Sounds like a lot of "I'm ok, you're ok, we're all ok." to me.

[kafka]

hyperbole is one of my favorite words.

[KnightofChrist]

I am so utterly ashamed. This is yet another defeat in a long line of defeats on the issue of Life that most of the hierarchy refuse just refuse to show up to battle. This is an absolute disgrace to the Church. It will help to vastly increase the preexisting mass confusion amongst Catholics on the issue of Life.

If I am be honest such actions, or should I say such inaction test my faith in the Church today. Liberals in the Church seem to be allowed to just do what ever the holly jolly they want, Church Teaching, and Church Law be d[color="#000000"]a[/color]mned. But there always seems to be swift and powerful action taken against Traditionalist be it just or unjust.

I am frankly very confused about my trust in the majority of the US hierarchy for allowing such an clear violation of Church teaching and law to take place. Some one please tell me I'm crazy and my fears are unfounded.

Edited May 17, 2009 by KnightofChrist

[kafka]

Well knightofchrist, what can I say? You arent crazy. This might sound stupid but my new mantra is 'Everything That Rises Must Converge' It sounds stupid, but God will and for that matter must eventually answer all the sincere prayers which Rise up to Him like incense for the end of abortion and for a pro-life president. It is Justice and it will eventually happen at some coordinate in the future of this nation, in spite of how bad things look today.

[Slappo]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1869571' date='May 17 2009, 01:47 PM']I am frankly very confused about my trust in the majority of the US hierarchy for allowing such an clear violation of Church teaching and law to take place. Some one please tell me I'm crazy and my fears are unfounded.[/quote]

US Church hierarchy or US Government hierarchy?

The Church spoke out very strongly against this. The Church bishops in the US were some of the most adamant. I think as a whole our bishops are speaking out very well lately on important issues.

[Groo the Wanderer]

I disagree.

Obama is nothing. Everything he says is nothing. Everything he does is nothing.

The real story is the poll showing that for the first time since Roe v Wade, the American public is more pro-life than pro-death.

The war for life will not be won in the White House, the courtroom, or the media. It will be won in the hearts of the American people. Even if abortion stays legal, it is of naught if the law sits unused and the abortion industry one day folds due to lack of customers.


Everyone put down the kool-aid, turn off the TV, and load your weapon - your rosary. We are winning the war. Slowly, with millions of innocent unborn casualties, but we are winning. The blood of the innocents cries out for vengeance. They will have it, but not in this lifetime.

[kafka]

[quote name='Slappo' post='1869580' date='May 17 2009, 04:58 PM']US Church hierarchy or US Government hierarchy?

The Church spoke out very strongly against this. The Church bishops in the US were some of the most adamant. I think as a whole our bishops are speaking out very well lately on important issues.[/quote]
I was confused about that part too. It is interesting to see how the Bishops are beginning to become more vocal. I think it is in reaction or in inverse proportion to the many evils occuring in our country which have been spiralling downward.

[Brother Adam]

Remember that the Church is Israel with Christ. Grace is all that separates our own stupidity and that of those of the old covenant. One nave filled with sheep and goats. There are good bishops and evil bishops. Thank God the sacraments are effective ex opere operato. While we are much better off than other times in history, like during the Arian crisis, I do believe this occassion of dissent was important enough to warrant actual action instead of words.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1869584' date='May 17 2009, 03:03 PM']I disagree.

Obama is nothing. Everything he says is nothing. Everything he does is nothing.

The real story is the poll showing that for the first time since Roe v Wade, the American public is more pro-life than pro-death.

The war for life will not be won in the White House, the courtroom, or the media. It will be won in the hearts of the American people. Even if abortion stays legal, it is of naught if the law sits unused and the abortion industry one day folds due to lack of customers.


Everyone put down the kool-aid, turn off the TV, and load your weapon - your rosary. We are winning the war. Slowly, with millions of innocent unborn casualties, but we are winning. The blood of the innocents cries out for vengeance. They will have it, but not in this lifetime.[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
Totally agree.

[Norseman82]

I saw the coverage on CNN. I was amazed that the Notre Dame president spun the controversy as "Obama came to speak despite the fact he knows we oppose his policies on abortion". Unbelievable.

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1869569' date='May 17 2009, 04:47 PM']Did Obama say anything of substance in the entire speech? Sounds like a lot of "I'm ok, you're ok, we're all ok." to me.[/quote]

The only thing that made my ears take notice was that Obama said he would support a conscience clause. However, as with everything, actions speak louder than words.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Norseman82

[Paladin D]

If a white President were to use the same logic in regards to slavery, he would've been stoned to death. Why is it okay then to "respectfully disagree" about abortion, which is the killing of a [b]completely, innocent, human lifeform?[/b]

[Paladin D]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1869592' date='May 17 2009, 06:14 PM']The only thing that made my ears take notice was that Obama said he would support a conscience clause. However, as with everything, actions speak louder than words.[/quote]

Didn't he stop such a clause though? Or was that something else?

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Slappo' post='1869580' date='May 17 2009, 03:58 PM']US Church hierarchy or US Government hierarchy?

The Church spoke out very strongly against this. The Church bishops in the US were some of the most adamant. I think as a whole our bishops are speaking out very well lately on important issues.[/quote]

I know that a number of Bishops spoke out. But none took any real action against this debacle.

Yes I agree that it is good that the are speaking up. They only need to add teeth to their words.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Paladin D' post='1869594' date='May 17 2009, 04:18 PM']Didn't he stop such a clause though? Or was that something else?[/quote]

I am pretty sure that he did try to stop the clause.

[CatholicCid]

Let's not forget the local Bishop's action by not attending, instead saying Mass outside in the Quad. I believe other Bishops and a possibly a Cardinal attended? Fr. John Corapi was present to give a speech as well.

The local Bishop's action calls to mind the words of, I believe, St. Ignatius in that the Church is where the Bishop is.

[Slappo]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1869604' date='May 17 2009, 02:30 PM']I know that a number of Bishops spoke out. But none took any real action against this debacle.

Yes I agree that it is good that the are speaking up. They only need to add teeth to their words.[/quote]

The thing is the only bishop that could take action is his local ordinary (that I'm aware of). I don't think any of the other bishops could excommunicate Fr. Jenkins or take the Catholic title from Notre Dame (which I would disagree with as an action anyway).

[KnightofChrist]

Today is still a dark day for those that are faithful to Mother Church. This will most likely make our duty to spread the true faith harder.

In my journeys in evangelism I always seem to run up against three types of people non-believers that always bring up the inaction that allowed the sex abuse scandal to happen in the first place. Altough much action has been made to clean it up. Fall away Catholics who believe that events such as today's is proof that the Church is slowing changing it's outdated ways. And lastly Non-Catholic Christians who bring up the inaction against those that call themselves Catholic but support the murder of babies.

In all three I feel as if I am drowning to find a response. Words are great and are better than nothing but I would like to have a lifeboat more often than not.

[Brother Adam]

Yes, it has directly affected the witnessing I am doing to Protestants and has made at least one person that I know of change his mind about pursuing RCIA this fall. He told me that what ever words are said inviting Obama to make a commencement address and receive a degree is an approval of his ideology, or at the very least that abortion doesn't matter to Catholics. I haven't been able to get anywhere since our Church hasn't done anything concrete about it. The argument we have had is more complex than I can explain here though.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Brother Adam