This Roman Catholic Woman Got My Respect

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1875244' date='May 25 2009, 09:18 PM']She should never be allowed to have a child.[/quote]

She has raised this boy fine and there is nothing at all that proves that she has not been a great mother to him up to this point.

She has returned with the boy and he is fine and they are seeing what will happen in the future.

I do think it is ignorant of her, for whatever reasons, to seek "natural healing pracitices," but for her to not ever have been allowed to have a child is harsh and unfair.

[Hassan]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1875275' date='May 25 2009, 08:30 PM']She has raised this boy fine and there is nothing at all that proves that she has not been a great mother to him up to this point.

She has returned with the boy and he is fine and they are seeing what will happen in the future.

I do think it is ignorant of her, for whatever reasons, to seek "natural healing pracitices," but for her to not ever have been allowed to have a child is harsh and unfair.[/quote]

Perhapse I've just seen too many kids screwed over by the parents who were supposed to look out for them. As far as I can see, if she's too stupid to see through that asinine cult and make the overwhelmingly rational decision then the son deserves a guardian whose not a complete moron.

Not to mention that the child is 13 years old and illiterate due to his parent's homeschooling.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1875291' date='May 25 2009, 08:38 PM']Not to mention that the child is 13 years old and illiterate due to his parent's homeschooling.[/quote]

I hadn't heard that about her. That is definitely child abuse in my book.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1875090' date='May 25 2009, 05:36 PM']Took one dose of chemo and decided it was too much for him?

I'm sorry, but what a cop out.[/quote]

Have you ever been through Chemo?

[quote name='Hassan' post='1875244' date='May 25 2009, 07:18 PM']She should never be allowed to have a child.[/quote]

...of all people Hassan, I thought you'd have sided with her.

[Hassan]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1875305' date='May 25 2009, 08:50 PM']...of all people Hassan, I thought you'd have sided with her.[/quote]


Why?

[TotusTuusMaria]

he does have a guardian who, appears, to want the treatment: his father. He urged the mother to return home with the child so they could discuss the treatment further.

As for him being illterate... there is no way he could be illterate and the state have not known about it some time before this, as there is no way for them to bypass the Minnesota homeschooling laws which

1) force them to submit his progress in the required fields of the state (reading, being listed first) every quarter

2) force them to hand over to his class schedule, copies of the materials they use to teach him, and a description of the method used to assess his achievement

3) force him to take standerdized tests

the state would have known by now if he couldn't read and would have corrected the situation or the parents would be battling more then taking the son out of the state and refusing treatment right now. The child would have been taken away from them some time before this (and now) if he truly could not read simply because the "parents weren't really teaching him."

Edited May 26, 2009 by TotusTuusMaria

[Hassan]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1875322' date='May 25 2009, 10:01 PM']he does have a guardian who, appears, to want the treatment: his father. He urged the mother to return home with the child so they could discuss the treatment further.

As for him being illterate... there is no way he could be illterate and the state have not known about it some time before this, as there is no way for them to bypass the Minnesota homeschooling laws which

1) force them to submit his progress in the required fields of the state (reading, being listed first) every quarter

2) force them to hand over to his class schedule, copies of the materials they use to teach him, and a description of the method used to assess his achievement

3) forces him to take standerdized tests

the state would have known by now if he couldn't read and would have corrected the situation or the parents would be battling more then taking the son out of the state and refusing treatment.[/quote]


There are functionally illiterate kids in American High Schools.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1875327' date='May 25 2009, 10:06 PM']There are functionally illiterate kids in American High Schools.[/quote]

What does that have to do with anything?

You said he was illiterate due to his parents homeschooling. i'm telling you that is bologna. there is no way for him to be illiterate and the state not know about it. They are under the obligation to take action (which they haven't done and don't appear to be doing)... which leads me to conclude that he isn't illiterate and you saying "he is illiterate by his parents homeschooling" is inaccurate.

Edited May 26, 2009 by TotusTuusMaria

[Hassan]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1875332' date='May 25 2009, 09:12 PM']

You said he was illiterate due to his parents homeschooling. i'm telling you that is bologna. there is no way for him to be illiterate and the state not know about it. They are under the obligation to take action (which they haven't done and don't appear to be doing)... which leads me to conclude that he isn't illiterate.[/quote]

And with all due respect, it doesn't take a logician to figure out the holes in your reasoning.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Hassan' post='1875334' date='May 25 2009, 10:17 PM']And with all due respect, it doesn't take a logician to figure out the holes in your reasoning.[/quote]

there is no holes.

if he is illiterate they would not have him right now because they didn't comply with the homeschooling laws of their state.

they do have him.

thus, 1) he isn't illiterate 2) they are complying with the state, they are homeschooling him correctly, and the issue isn't the parents

either way you are wrong in one half or all of your statement which was "he is illiterate because of his parents homeschooling him."

what isn't "logical" is that the state has not removed the child if, in fact, "he is illiterate because of his parents homeschooling him" or rather "not homeschooling him"

Edited May 26, 2009 by TotusTuusMaria

[MithLuin]

Lots of people fall through the cracks - anyone [i]could[/i] be illiterate. I doubt anyone here knows if this particular child [i]is[/i] illiterate, though, so it does seem silly to bicker over that detail.

As a point of clarification, gardacil is not a form of birth control/contraceptive. It has no affect on fertility in any way. It is a vaccine against a viral STD that is the primary cause of cervical cancer in women. The state has an obligation to require vaccines across the board, because they are ineffective without the phenomena of herd immunity - if everyone is immunized, no one gets sick, and the disease is eliminated. If people without the vaccine live in a community, the disease can run through the community, possibly even affecting people who got the shot.

When a new vaccine is introduced, some parents are generally reluctant to give it to their kids. There's always a transitional period. But some vaccines are more controversial than others. The MMR for 18 mo. olds is thought by some to be linked to autism, and of course HPV is an STD, and some parents want to suggest that there are other ways of avoiding infection besides getting the vaccine (true enough, of course). But their reluctance to get vaccinated is not related to the Catholic stance on contraceptives, and has more to do with the Christian stance on fornication.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='MithLuin' post='1875358' date='May 25 2009, 10:43 PM']Lots of people fall through the cracks - anyone [i]could[/i] be illiterate. I doubt anyone here knows if this particular child [i]is[/i] illiterate, though, so it does seem silly to bicker over that detail.[/quote]

Well I think it is not right to spread the story (the possible lie) that the child is illiterate and that it is because of his parents not homeschooling him.

You don't "fall through the cracks" when your name and situation is all over the internet and in the media.

If he is taking a yearly standerdized test (as he should be by law) then he has to be able to read the test and perform, which he is doing if he has not been taken from their care (which he hasn't).

He is in their care so the story isn't as Hassan tells it (and as people are being told here). It just doesn't make sense.

Lies and little storys reported by blogs shouldn't be passed off as fact. And it certainly isn't silly to correct such things or to call such stories out as not supported.

And it isn't a minor detail. It is not as big as the situation of his mother taking him away from hospital care which has resulted in his life being severely threatened, but it is child abuse. That being the case makes it important.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1875305' date='May 25 2009, 08:50 PM']Have you ever been through Chemo?[/quote]
People live through chemotherapy every day. Is it fun? No. It's awful. I know this because I've seen people go through it. I won't deny that it's terrible.
Is it possible though? Absolutely. Millions of people prove that.

To take one dose and decide it's too onerous is just silly.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1875390' date='May 25 2009, 09:48 PM']People live through chemotherapy every day. Is it fun? No. It's awful. I know this because I've seen people go through it. I won't deny that it's terrible.
Is it possible though? Absolutely. Millions of people prove that.

To take one dose and decide it's too onerous is just silly.[/quote]

i didn't ask if you've seen people go through it, I asked if you, yourself has ever been through it but I guess we could assume the answer to that.

Reza

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1875395' date='May 25 2009, 10:53 PM']i didn't ask if you've seen people go through it, I asked if you, yourself has ever been through it but I guess we could assume the answer to that.

Reza[/quote]
Fine, allow me to clarify.

I have not been through chemotherapy, however the millions of people who have successfully completed chemotherapy sessions attest to the fact that it's quite within reach of an average human being.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1875395' date='May 26 2009, 12:53 AM']i didn't ask if you've seen people go through it, I asked if you, yourself has ever been through it but I guess we could assume the answer to that.

Reza[/quote]
And your point is?

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1875399' date='May 25 2009, 09:57 PM']Fine, allow me to clarify.

I have not been through chemotherapy, however the millions of people who have successfully completed chemotherapy sessions attest to the fact that it's quite within reach of an average human being.[/quote]

Since you haven't been through it, you can't say for sure what it's like, so you're hardly in the position to judge this thirteen year old.

I'd also like to add that my wife worked in oncology for quite some time, and in many nursing homes before that, and people's experiences are different. Some it's not bad, others it's very bad. The Star Tribune has a video in which his mother and him are telling of his gums in his mouth swelling to the point of not being able to see some of his teeth. Unless you've experienced it, you can talk all you want about what it's like but you don't know.

There are many people that choose not to go through it, and of those that have gone through it, many that say they would never do it again.

Reza

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1875408' date='May 25 2009, 11:04 PM']Since you haven't been through it, you can't say for sure what it's like, so you're hardly in the position to judge this thirteen year old.

I'd also like to add that my wife worked in oncology for quite some time, and in many nursing homes before that, and people's experiences are different. Some it's not bad, others it's very bad. The Star Tribune has a video in which his mother and him are telling of his gums in his mouth swelling to the point of not being able to see some of his teeth. Unless you've experienced it, you can talk all you want about what it's like but you don't know.

There are many people that choose not to go through it, and of those that have gone through it, many that say they would never do it again.

Reza[/quote]
...so the symptoms are going to be absolutely unbearable, to the point that it's better to cease what is quite probably LIFE SAVING treatment, after the FIRST DOSE?
I have a tough time buying that.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1875390' date='May 25 2009, 11:48 PM']To take one dose and decide it's too onerous is just silly.[/quote]

I haven't been through chemo, but I have heard that it is excruciatingly painful. I could see where a person, especially a child, would say, "I don't want to do this ever again. Mom, please."

I can also see where a mother would look to other means. I can only imagine the pain that she has felt watching her child experience chemotherapy. I can understand why she would want to do what she did especially if she is being told it has healed others and she believes this.

However, rationally... it wasn't the best choice... morally it probably wasn't the best choice.

She isn't [i]meaning[/i] to kill her child I don't think. She loves her child, I think. Hopefully, now that she has returned, she will see that this has to happen and her and her husband will choose, however painful for them and Daniel, chemotherapy and thus life.

That, I think, would be the Catholic thing to do.

Edited May 26, 2009 by TotusTuusMaria

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1875404' date='May 25 2009, 10:02 PM']And your point is?[/quote]

What do you think my point is? I'm pretty clear... but what is your point? You seem to be making it clear that you don't want me to post here anymore. If that's the case, let me know and I'd gladly not post here anymore, as many others have done.

Reza