Is Heaven A Physical Place?

[OraProMe]

The dogma's of the ressurection and the assumption seem to imply pretty strongly that it is. If it contains physical bodies then that means it has confines of space and is itself a physical place. Material objects can only exist in a material place. Do you think this is a childish view of heaven? Perhaps a left over from a time when we didn't know so much about science, the universe and physics?

I always thought of heaven as being a spiritual place, where our souls were united to God (beatific vision).

But the bodies of Mary and Jesus, that's physical.

Thoughts, guys?

[Callidius]

We will be resurrected body AND soul so most likely heaven is physical AND spiritual

[HisChildForever]

It may not necessarily be physical, but glorified bodies (note: glorified) can "live" or "exist" there.

[Callidius]

At the final judgment the Earth will be restored to what it was before mans fall so it would be a physical place and spiritual do to the presence of God and the Angels

[Spence06]

Heaven is a very physical place!

Read a Travel Guide to Heaven by Anthony DeStefano, its a light read but the book is really touching and has really excellent reflections on heaven.

[Callidius]

We were not destined to be bodiless spirits to live in a non-physical world

[Theologian in Training]

[quote name='Callidius' post='1876871' date='May 27 2009, 10:52 PM']We were not destined to be bodiless spirits to live in a non-physical world[/quote]

[kafka]

[quote name='HisChildForever' post='1876612' date='May 27 2009, 01:14 PM']It may not necessarily be physical, but glorified bodies (note: glorified) can "live" or "exist" there.[/quote]
I am with HCF on this one.

Heaven is beyond Space/Time, since it is with God who is Eternity. If it were physical one could argue that given the technology one could eventually find it somewhere in the Universe, which is impossible since no-one may stumble upon it by their own power. It is supernatural. It is like a spaceship with a cloaking device. It exists, it is a creation, yet one cannot see it, or locate it on radar, etc. since it is with God. To be with Eternity (God) is to be beyond Time, Place, extension, duration, dimension, etc. etc. etc.

It is a sort of supernatural container-containing glorified Jesus and Mary, the Angels and the Souls of the Elect.

After the General Judgment God creates a New Heaven for the newly resurrected Elect who reunite with their bodies at the General Resurrection.

How a glorified body which retains physicality is contained in a realm beyond Time and Place is a mystery.

God also creates a New Earth. This will be a physical place perhaps connected to the New Heaven, so that the Elect may descend their and do things there according to God's will. The New Earth will be quite different than our First Earth. Who can say what is will be like?

Edited May 29, 2009 by kafka

[buzzoff1031]

I think Heaven is definitely physical. Of course I'm not rooted enough in Church teaching to know if this goes against it or not, but why would we not think that heaven is a recreated universe-including Earth? With our glorified bodies, we'd be able to go anywhere and explore everything. If this is against church teaching, I will stand corrected. But I read a book that stated things similar to this. And we were created as PHYSICAL beings and worship God spiritually and PHYSICALLY. So it stands to reason, I would think.

[kafka]

[quote name='buzzoff1031' post='1877743' date='May 29 2009, 01:53 AM']I think Heaven is definitely physical. Of course I'm not rooted enough in Church teaching to know if this goes against it or not, but why would we not think that heaven is a recreated universe-including Earth? With our glorified bodies, we'd be able to go anywhere and explore everything. If this is against church teaching, I will stand corrected. But I read a book that stated things similar to this. And we were created as PHYSICAL beings and worship God spiritually and PHYSICALLY. So it stands to reason, I would think.[/quote]
you are referring to the New Earth, which in my personal interpretation is implied a whole new creation of the Cosmos sometime after the General Judgment.

Still the New Heaven is beyond the New Earth and the entire Universe since it is with God.

Edited May 29, 2009 by kafka

[Jaime]

According to the Go-Go's, heaven is a place on earth

[kafka]

[quote name='hot stuff' post='1877857' date='May 29 2009, 11:43 AM']According to the Go-Go's, heaven is a place on earth[/quote]
lot of profound theology going on in that song.

[Guest KevinSymonds]

According to John Paul II, heaven and hell are states of being, not actual places.

He got a lot of flack for that in the press with headlines such as, "Pope says hell does not exist."

[Apotheoun]

Heaven is the participation of the redeemed man in the uncreated light and glory of God, which of its nature involves the whole of his created being, i.e., both his body and his soul. Thus, heaven must not be reduced to some kind of immaterial reality or a mere mental state, because it includes the human body, which was given immortality through the incarnation, passion, death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ.

[kafka]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1881253' date='Jun 2 2009, 03:02 PM']Heaven is the participation of the redeemed man in the uncreated light and glory of God, which of its nature involves the whole of his created being, i.e., both his body and his soul. Thus, heaven must not be reduced to some kind of immaterial reality or a mere mental state, because it includes the human body, which was given immortality through the incarnation, passion, death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ.[/quote]
The new bodies of the resurrection are spiritual (1 Cor 15) as well as physical, so they are designed to dwell with God in Heaven beyond Time and Place, as they are also designed to dwell in the New Earth which will be an actual Place, and in which Time will continue.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='kafka' post='1881625' date='Jun 2 2009, 08:46 PM']The new bodies of the resurrection are spiritual (1 Cor 15) as well as physical, so they are designed to dwell with God in Heaven beyond Time and Place, as they are also designed to dwell in the New Earth which will be an actual Place, and in which Time will continue.[/quote]
I said nothing about heaven being a geographical location, but simply that it is physical because the resurrected bodies of the saints are physical.

The "spiritual body" that St. Paul speaks about is not immaterial or non-physical; instead, it is the same physical body that one had prior to death supernaturally reconstituted and governed by the Spirit, who energetically dwells within the deified man. That said, I wrote a paper in response to the errors of one of my professors on this topic years ago, which can be read by clicking the link below:

[url="http://sites.google.com/site/thetaboriclight/paper01"][i][b]St. Paul and the Resurrection of the Body[/b][/i][/url]

Edited June 4, 2009 by Apotheoun

[kafka]

[quote name='Apotheoun' post='1882822' date='Jun 4 2009, 04:21 AM']I said nothing about heaven being a geographical location, but simply that it is physical because the resurrected bodies of the saints are physical.

The "spiritual body" that St. Paul speaks about is not immaterial or non-physical; instead, it is the same physical body that one had prior to death supernaturally reconstituted and governed by the Spirit, who energetically dwells within the deified man. That said, I wrote a paper in response to the errors of one of my professors on this topic years ago, which can be read by clicking the link below:

[url="http://sites.google.com/site/thetaboriclight/paper01"][i][b]St. Paul and the Resurrection of the Body[/b][/i][/url][/quote]
I was trying to assert that even though the resurrected bodies of the just, which retain a physical aspect, dwell in Heaven; Heaven is non-physical, it is completely beyond the physical. So how the bodies of the just are able to be in a non-physical realm is a mystery.

I agree that the resurrected bodies (physical) are completely subject to the soul (spiritual), and the soul is completely subject to God. So in the sense of the bodies total subjection to anything the soul and ultimately God wills is the sense that the resurrected body is spiritual.

In the resurrection do you believe we possess the same bodies than on earth only in a glorified form?

[MithLuin]

Yes, I think we all agree that when Jesus rose from the dead, he was no ghost.

[quote]I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, [b]the resurrection of the body,[/b] and the life everlasting.[/quote]

Jesus' body was real - he could cook and eat fish, you could touch the wounds in his hands and side. So, certainly tangible, physical. But at the same time...he could be in a room when a moment before, all the doors were locked. He was different enough that people who knew him well did not immediately recognize him. And yet human enough that no one reacted as if an angel had appeared. The disciples on the road to Emmaus took him for a fellow pilgrim. Mary Magdalene thought he was the gardner. Whatever a spiritualized body may or may not be, it is not strictly ethereal. It has physicality and substance to it.

But of course you can't get to heaven in a spaceship. So, while it may have some sort of physical reality to it, it's not...in this plane of existence. Space and time have to mean different things in the light of eternity. The promise of a new heaven and a new earth suggests that this reality will be brought into that reality, but I hesitate to say too much. After all, there's really no way I can understand how heaven 'works' while I'm here.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='kafka' post='1882915' date='Jun 4 2009, 09:01 AM']I was trying to assert that even though the resurrected bodies of the just, which retain a physical aspect, dwell in Heaven; Heaven is non-physical, it is completely beyond the physical. So how the bodies of the just are able to be in a non-physical realm is a mystery.

I agree that the resurrected bodies (physical) are completely subject to the soul (spiritual), and the soul is completely subject to God. So in the sense of the bodies total subjection to anything the soul and ultimately God wills is the sense that the resurrected body is spiritual.[/quote]
The tri-hypostatic God Himself is heaven, and so the experience of God, which the saints enjoy, is both physical and spiritual because they are both physical and spiritual. That is as much as I believe as an Eastern Christian.

[quote name='kafka' post='1882915' date='Jun 4 2009, 09:01 AM']In the resurrection do you believe we possess the same bodies than on earth only in a glorified form?[/quote]
Yes, the resurrected bodies of the saints are the same bodies -- glorified and perfected -- that they had during their earthly sojourn.

[MissyP89]

Pretty much what MithLuin said.

I am of the personal opinion that heaven, hell and purgatory are states of being, but if I am wrong, I have no problem going to a physical place.