Abstinence Only In Florida Not Working

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1905379' date='Jun 29 2009, 01:45 PM']like it is with motorcycle gear, dress for the crash not for the ride.
obviously you shouldnt crash while driving, but if and when you do, you should know how to protect yourself.[/quote]

Unlike wearing a helmet, using artificial contraception is always seriously immoral.

[picchick]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1905379' date='Jun 29 2009, 02:45 PM']like it is with motorcycle gear, dress for the crash not for the ride.
obviously you shouldnt crash while driving, but if and when you do, you should know how to protect yourself.[/quote]

The issue here is this:

When you ride a motorcylce, the purpose is.....to have fun riding a motorcylce.

When you have sex, the purpose is to procreate. Yeah it is fun but there is a purpose behind it: a God-given purpose.

Now you "protect" yourself, you take the purpose out of sex.

Sex is the total giving of oneself to another. Through that total giving miracles happen. If you bar that total giving of oneself, miracles cannot happen. Thus, sex is desecrated, rendered useless.

Hey, I am 24. I have not had sex yet. I knew that condoms existed. I knew that birth control existed. But I was taught why we save sex for marriage. I was taught the beauty behind the first marital embrace.

Furthermore, where ever you got that article, I find it a tad annoying. I was taught abstinence only. Mind you I was homeschooled so maybe it was different for me but I know the proper terms penis and vagina. I could even go into more detail for you about the physiology behind sex in what happens. So I don't see how that "conversation" truly reflects abstinence only programs.

Edited June 29, 2009 by picchick

[Brother Adam]

Interestingly enough abstinence only education worked on me. I was scared into not having sex because our sex ed class basically taught - class 1) How people biologically have sex (using those old anatomy and physiology charts); class 2 - end of the year) everything you never wanted to know about STDs and pregnancy. We were basically told if you have sex you ARE going to get an std and die a horrible death or you ARE going to get a girl pregnant.

[picchick]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1905455' date='Jun 29 2009, 04:18 PM']Interestingly enough abstinence only education worked on me. I was scared into not having sex because our sex ed class basically taught - class 1) How people biologically have sex (using those old anatomy and physiology charts); class 2 - end of the year) everything you never wanted to know about STDs and pregnancy. We were basically told if you have sex you ARE going to get an std and die a horrible death or you ARE going to get a girl pregnant.[/quote]



although effective for some, I am not too keen on the fear tactic...

[tinytherese]

Abstinence education shouldn't involve scaring kids into not having sex because of stds and pregnancies, certainly they should be discussed as well as the reality that safe sex is a joke and has medical side affects that the contraceptive companies don't want us to know about, but should focus more than anything else on the psychological, emotional, and relationship consequences on having premarital sex.

As famous chastity speaker Jason Evert states, that even if people know that they can get pregnant or contract a disease they will still take those risks because they want love. To really motivate people to be chaste, you have to touch their hearts on the beauty of chastity.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xab6nnIAxI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xab6nnIAxI[/url]

[url="http://www.chastity.com/"]http://www.chastity.com/[/url]

By saying, "I would prefer that you wait to save sex for marriage but I know that you're going to do it anyway, so here's a condom" is saying that you don't believe in them, that you them as an animal with no self control and that as Jason says again enslaves them to birth control. Why aren't more young people pure, because so few people believe that they can be.

[Jesus_lol]

it doesnt really accurately show it, because it is really only for comedic value.

the problem with morality based teaching is that there is NO chance of getting everyone to agree with you on any subject. its basing your teaching on "why" instead of "how". sure abstinence only might get a couple less people to stop having premarital sex, but it also leaves the rest with no valid information to protect themselves with.

given that i have been here for 2 years(during which time some of my views have changed towards the catholic view) and listened to all the arguments for and against birth control and premarital sex, yet i am still not convinced that the catholic take on either is correct, i am a good poster child for the phrase "you cant change everyone."

i dont see people wanting to teach NFP to highschoolers, so with a complete and utter lack of any sort of birth control being taught to the kids who are having sex, it is ensuring that they will all get pregnant and STDs unless they figure out birthcontrol on their own.

[quote]By saying, "I would prefer that you wait to save sex for marriage but I know that you're going to do it anyway, so here's a condom" is saying that you don't believe in them,[/quote]
i am fine with people assuming teenagers are complete idiots who when given a choice will pick the most damaging option to themselves or others. basically because with few exceptions, that is true. i only recently stopped being a teenager, but i am still an idiot who makes bad decisions all the time. and with some of the people i grew up with in school who couldnt find their arse with both hands, i am perfectly justified in not believing in them.

Edited June 29, 2009 by Jesus_lol

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1905369' date='Jun 29 2009, 03:35 PM']Teenagers are going to violate the Sixth Commandment regardless of what anyone teaches.

Even devout Catholics are guilty of fornication sometimes.

That said, we cannot support the use of artificial contraception, since artificial contraception is always wrong.[/quote]

"Well, the two of us was fixin' to fornicate." -Delmar O'Donnell, [i]O' Brother, Where Art Thou[/i]

Indeed, we should work to uphold the sanctity of marriage in everything we teach rather than giving up just because the road is difficult and will never be fully realized this side of heaven.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1905379' date='Jun 29 2009, 03:45 PM']like it is with motorcycle gear, dress for the crash not for the ride.
obviously you shouldnt crash while driving, but if and when you do, you should know how to protect yourself.[/quote]

Now, this is a good metaphor. I agree wholeheartedly: Get married. Then have sex.

[VeniteAdoremus]

A Christian primary school (although the age group would be middle school in the US, I think) was in the news here recently because of a chastity project.

They made each of the children buy a small gift for one of the others, with the instruction to pick something the other kid would really like. Then the instructors collected all the gifts, took them to another room, unwrapped them, broke the toys, ripped up the books, etc., and [i]then[/i] gave them to the intended recipients.

Result: a bunch of crying kids.

Moral of the story, according to the instructors: you aren't crying because [i]your[/i] toy is broken, because you didn't even know what it was going to be. You're crying because you wanted to make the other person happy and give them something they would like, but now that's broken.

Same goes for getting married when you're not a virgin anymore.

...
I thought that was pretty messed up. But maybe that's me.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1905490' date='Jun 29 2009, 04:52 PM']it doesnt really accurately show it, because it is really only for comedic value.

the problem with morality based teaching is that there is NO chance of getting everyone to agree with you on any subject. its basing your teaching on "why" instead of "how". sure abstinence only might get a couple less people to stop having premarital sex, but it also leaves the rest with no valid information to protect themselves with.

given that i have been here for 2 years(during which time some of my views have changed towards the catholic view) and listened to all the arguments for and against birth control and premarital sex, yet i am still not convinced that the catholic take on either is correct, i am a good poster child for the phrase "you cant change everyone."

i dont see people wanting to teach NFP to highschoolers, so with a complete and utter lack of any sort of birth control being taught to the kids who are having sex, it is ensuring that they will all get pregnant and STDs unless they figure out birthcontrol on their own.[/quote]


Just a couple less teens? Actually, this may be a surprise to you but more teens and young adults are chaste than you think. I can't load the proof of that and the facts about contraceptives that you probably will never hear about in sex ed. since the computer that I'm on at the moment isn't letting me load the info. for some odd reason, but I'll try to get it later.

[tinytherese]

I'm doing everything I can to promote chastity, whether the world likes it or not. I got so many positive responses from my classmates when I started a chastity club at my secular women's college and am volunteering to help at this one abstinence education group in my home town. Not to mention praying for a new sexual revolution.

Edited June 29, 2009 by tinytherese

[brokensparrow]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1905496' date='Jun 29 2009, 02:59 PM']A Christian primary school (although the age group would be middle school in the US, I think) was in the news here recently because of a chastity project.

They made each of the children buy a small gift for one of the others, with the instruction to pick something the other kid would really like. Then the instructors collected all the gifts, took them to another room, unwrapped them, broke the toys, ripped up the books, etc., and [i]then[/i] gave them to the intended recipients.

Result: a bunch of crying kids.

Moral of the story, according to the instructors: you aren't crying because [i]your[/i] toy is broken, because you didn't even know what it was going to be. You're crying because you wanted to make the other person happy and give them something they would like, but now that's broken.

Same goes for getting married when you're not a virgin anymore.

...
I thought that was pretty messed up. But maybe that's me.[/quote]

While that may have been effective for some of the kids, it does seem very heartless.

I'm much more a fan of being positive about sexuality and focusing more on the beauty of waiting for marriage and using sexuality the way God intended. I don't like using scare tactics.

It's like waiting for the roast beef instead of eating the boullion cube.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1905490' date='Jun 29 2009, 05:52 PM']i dont see people wanting to teach NFP to highschoolers, so with a complete and utter lack of any sort of birth control being taught to the kids who are having sex, it is ensuring that they will all get pregnant and STDs unless they figure out birthcontrol on their own.[/quote]

What you're not seeing is the greater issue that's at risk: the sanctity of marriage and human life. Sure, there will probably be some teens who get pregnant, including some who were committed to abstinence before marriage. At least pregnancy brings with it the joy and blessing of new life, in spite of the hardships and sacrifices. That can't so much for an STD.

But looking down the road a few decades, what happens when two or three generations are raised in a society that largely doesn't care too much about reserving sexual intimacy for marriage and being ordered towards welcoming children into the world? When happens when this most intimate experience between a man and woman that was created to hold marriage together cannot hold marriages together because most spouses have had so many partners before marriage and even outside their current marriages? Then what happens as children are raised in this broken families, that have either viewed children as a risk to their sex life or their standard of living, or as a living reminder of a broken marriage/relationship, etc.? What happens to our sense of commitment and virtue?

Here's the bottom line: in our man-made attempts to prevent unexpected pregnancies and the spread of STDs, we are creating even bigger monsters that will be far more difficult to control. This is why we need to read the Old Testament: We are trying to build a tower to heaven and our world will only end up far more confused than it ever was before.

[VeniteAdoremus]

[quote name='brokensparrow' post='1905504' date='Jun 30 2009, 12:11 AM']While that may have been effective for some of the kids, it does seem very heartless.

I'm much more a fan of being positive about sexuality and focusing more on the beauty of waiting for marriage and using sexuality the way God intended. I don't like using scare tactics.

It's like waiting for the roast beef instead of eating the boullion cube.[/quote]

And that last sentence is priceless


[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1905507' date='Jun 30 2009, 12:16 AM']Here's the bottom line: in our man-made attempts to prevent unexpected pregnancies and the spread of STDs, we are creating even bigger monsters that will be far more difficult to control. This is why we need to read the Old Testament: We are trying to build a tower to heaven and our world will only end up far more confused than it ever was before.[/quote]

We're already living in that world Broken families really hurt people (and unbroken families that wouldn't even do worse if they [i]were[/i] broken do, too).

People will always be people and we can't save everyone from themselves. But if we could just convince a few of them that there's so much beauty to be found... instead of assuming they'll fail anyway.

[tinytherese]

Statistics

SOURCES for statistics used in "Romance without Regret"

SEXUAL ACTIVITY RATES

Teen sexual activity rates have been dropping for over a decade, and now the majority of high school students are virgins. Centers for Disease Control, "Youth Risk Behavior Surveillance — United States, 2005," Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report 55:SS-5 (June 9, 2006): 19.


Between 1991 and 2005, the sexual activity rate of high school boys dropped twice as quickly as that of high school girls. Centers for Disease Control, "Trends in HIV-Related Behaviors Among High School Students — United States 1991-2005," Morbidity and Mortality Weekly 55:31 (August 11, 2006): 851-854.


Among those who have already lost their virginity, two-thirds of them wished they had waited longer to have sex (77 percent of girls and 60 percent of guys). National Campaign to Prevent Teen Pregnancy, "America's Adults and Teens Sound Off About Teen Pregnancy: An Annual National Survey (December 16, 2003), 17.


BENEFITS OF CHASTITY

When a man is married as a virgin, his divorce rate is 63 percent lower than a non-virgin. For women, it's 76 percent lower. Edward O. Laumann, et al., The Social Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices in the United States (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1994), 503.


The younger a girl is when she becomes sexually active, the more likely she is to experience multiple sexual partners, STDs, out of wedlock pregnancies, depression, abortion, and poverty. Heritage Foundation, "The Harmful Effects of Early Sexual Activity and Multiple Sexual Partners Among Women: A Book of Charts."


STDs

Human papillomavirus (HPV) is the most common STD. Division of STD Prevention "Prevention of Genital HPV Infection and Sequelae: Report of an External Consultants' Meeting," Department of Health and Human Services, Atlanta: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) (December 1999): 1.


HPV causes 99.7 percent of cervical cancer. So, with each sexual partner a woman has, her risk of cervical cancer increases. Cf. J. M. Walboomers, et al., "Human Papillomavirus Is a Necessary Cause of Invasive Cervical Cancer Worldwide," Journal of Pathology 189:1 (September, 1999): 12-19.


While condom use may reduce the risk of HPV-related diseases, it doesn't offer much protection from HPV, because the virus is spread from skin-to-skin contact throughout the entire genital area, including one's thighs and lower abdomen. National Institutes of Health, "Scientific Evidence on Condom Effectiveness for Sexually Transmitted Disease (STD) Prevention," (June, 2000), 26; House of Representatives "Breast and Cervical Cancer Prevention and Treatment Act of 1999," November 22, 1999.


The majority of sexually active women have been infected with one or more types of genital HPV. Centers for Disease Control, Division of STD Prevention, "Prevention of Genital HPV Infection and Sequelae: Report of an External Consultants' Meeting," 7.


A teenage girl's risk of acquiring HPV from her first sexual relationship is 46%. Collins, et al., "High incidence of cervical human papillomavirus infection in women during their first sexual relationship," BJOG : an international journal of obstetrics and gynaecology 109:1 (January, 2002): 96-98.


Through sexual contact with one person, you could be exposing yourself to the STDs of hundreds of people. Bearman, et al., "Chains of Affection: The Structure of Adolescent Romantic and Sexual Networks," American Journal of Sociology 110:1 (2004): 44-91. See Chart.


Oral sex can transmit virtually every STD. Medical Institute for Sexual Health, "Sex, Condoms, and STDs: What We Now Know" (Austin, Tex.: Medical Institute for Sexual Health, 2002) ; Centers for Disease Control, "Primary HIV Infections Associated with Oral Transmission," 2003; Centers for Disease Control, "Transmission of Primary and Secondary Syphilis by Oral Sex --- Chicago, Illinois, 1998—2002," Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report 51:41 (October 22, 2004): 966-968.


Hand-to-genital contact can transmit some STDs. C. Sonnex, et al., "Detection of Human Papillomavirus DNA on the Fingers of Patients with Genital Warts," Sexually Transmitted Infections 75 (1999): 317–319; Winer, et al., "Genital Human Papillomavirus Infection: Incidence and Risk Factors in a Cohort of Female University Students," American Journal of Epidemiology 157:3 (2003): 218-226; Tabrizi, et al., "Prevalence of Gardnerella vaginalis and Atopobium vaginae in virginal women," Sexually Transmitted Diseases, 33:11 (November, 2006): 663-665.


Even virgins can get STDs, including oral cancer from HPV. Ley, et al., "Determinants of Genital Human Papillomavirus Infection in Young Women," Journal of the National Cancer Institute 83:14 (July, 1991): 997-1003; Hammarstedt, et al., "Human papillomavirus as a risk factor for the increase in incidence of tonsillar cancer," International Journal of Cancer 119:11 (December, 2006): 2620-2623.


Eighty-five percent of women (and 40 percent of men) who are infected with Chlamydia don't show symptoms after they contract it. T. R. Eng and W. T. Butler, The Hidden Epidemic: Confronting Sexually Transmitted Diseases (Washington, D.C.: National Academy Press, 1997), 36.


HPV will usually clear on its own. But when a husband is infected with it, his wife is five times as likely to get cervical cancer. Bosch, et al., "Male Sexual Behavior and Human Papillomavirus DNA: Key Risk Factors for Cervical Cancer in Spain," Journal of the National Cancer Institute 88:15 (August, 1996): 1060-1067.


Birth-control pills interfere with a woman's immune system, making her more likely to contract certain STDs. Yovel, et al., "The Effects of Sex, Menstrual Cycle, and Oral Contraceptives on the Number and Activity of Natural Killer Cells," Gynecologic Oncology 81:2 (May, 2001): 254-262; Blum, et al., "Antisperm Antibodies in Young Oral Contraceptive Users," Advances in Contraception 5 (1989): 41–46; Critchlow, et al., "Determinants of cervical ectopia and of cervicitis: age, oral contraception, specific cervical infection, smoking, and douching," American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology 173:2 (August, 1995): 534-43; Baeten, et al., "Hormonal contraception and risk of sexually transmitted disease acquisition: results from a prospective study," American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology 185:2 (August, 2001): 380-385; Ley, et al., "Determinants of Genital Human Papillomavirus Infection in Young Women," Journal of the National Cancer Institute 83:14 (July, 1991): 997-1003; Prakash, et al., "Oral contraceptive use induces upregulation of the CCR5 chemokine receptor on CD4(+) T cells in the cervical epithelium of healthy women," Journal of Reproductive Immunology 54 (March, 2002): 117-131; Wang, et al., "Risk of HIV infection in oral contraceptive pill users: a meta-analysis," Journal of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndromes 21:1 (May, 1999): 51-58; Lavreys, et al., "Hormonal contraception and risk of HIV-1 acquisition: results from a 10-year prospective study," AIDS 18:4 (March, 2004): 695-697.


BIRTH CONTROL

The birth control pill increases a woman's chance of having breast cancer, cervical cancer, and liver cancer. Chris Kahlenborn, MD, et al., "Oral Contraceptive Use as a Risk Factor for Premenopausal Breast Cancer: A Meta-analysis," Mayo Clinic Proceedings 81:10 (October, 2006): 1290-1302; Collaborative Group on Hormonal Factors in Breast Cancer, "Breast cancer and hormonal contraceptives: collaborative reanalysis of individual data on 53,297 women with breast cancer and 100,239 women without breast cancer from 54 epidemiological studies," Lancet 347 (June, 1996): 1713-1727; World Health Organization, "IARC Monographs Programme Finds Combined Estrogen-Progestogen Contraceptives and Menopausal Therapy are Carcinogenic to Humans," International Agency for Research on Cancer, Press Release 167 (July 29, 2005); Smith, et al., "Cervical cancer and use of hormonal contraceptives: A systematic review," Lancet 361 (2003):1159–1167; La Vecchia, "Oral contraceptives and cancer," Minerva Ginecologica 58:3 (June, 2006): 209-214.


Depo-Provera (aka: the shot) interferes with a woman's immune system, making her more likely to contract chlamydia and gonorrhea. Morrison, et al., "Hormonal Contraceptive Use, Cervical Ectopy, and the Acquisition of Cervical Infections," Sexually Transmitted Diseases 31:9 (September, 2004): 561–567.


The makers of the Shot (Pfizer Pharmaceuticals) are being sued for 700 million dollars because the drug thins out a woman's bones. This is especially worrisome for young women, because the teenage years are a critical time for bone development. CTV.ca News, "Class action suit filed over birth control drug," (December 19, 2005); U.S. Food and Drug Administration, "Black Box Warning Added Concerning Long-Term Use of Depo-Provera Contraceptive Injection," FDA Talk Paper (November 17, 2004).


Because of its link to breast cancer, veterinarians stopped prescribing Depo-Provera for dogs. However, it's still being given to women, and is sometimes injected into male sex offenders in order to kill their sex drive. "The Case Against Depo-Provera," Multinational Monitor 6:2-3 (February/March, 1985); T.A. Kiersch, "Treatment of sex offenders with Depo-Provera," The Bulletin of the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law 18:2 (1990): 179-187; "Assembly Bill 3339, "An act to repeal and add Section 645 of the Penal Code, relating to crimes." California State Senate, Amended August 20, 1996; 2005 California Penal Code, 645.


Makers of the Birth Control Patch are being sued by at least 4000 women. Johnson and Johnson, SEC Filing, Annual Report for Period Ending 12/31/2006.


The birth control pill, patch, and shot can all act as abortifacients. The same is true of the morning after pill. "Physicians' Desk Reference, 2414, 2626, 2411. Physicians' Desk Reference, 1068; "Plan B® (Levonorgestrel) Prescribing Information, Duramed Pharmaceuticals, Inc. (August, 2006); Larimore, et al., "Postfertilization Effects of Oral Contraceptives and Their Relationship to Informed Consent," Archives of Family Medicine 9 (2000): 126-133.

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