Abstinence Only In Florida Not Working

[Brother Adam]

I'm not suggesting that fear is the way to go - I'm just saying that is what was used on me and my classmates in HS and it worked for the most part. Teaching what chastity is and what it means will always work better.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1905526' date='Jun 29 2009, 06:33 PM']We're already living in that world Broken families really hurt people (and unbroken families that wouldn't even do worse if they [i]were[/i] broken do, too).[/quote]

I don't think we're living in that world yet. We are seeing the effects of divorce and broken families, but we're only beginning to see the effects of the effects...

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1905526' date='Jun 29 2009, 06:33 PM']People will always be people and we can't save everyone from themselves. But if we could just convince a few of them that there's so much beauty to be found... instead of assuming they'll fail anyway.[/quote]

Well, the thing about beauty is when you encounter it, you need no convincing. That's the cool interplay between Truth and Beauty: Truth uses logic and arguments that require a mind that can distill emotion and attachment from a rational observation of facts; Beauty creates an experience that blows us away and changes us in ways that we never expected. Today's culture is guarded against Truth, but is yearning for Beauty. That's why I believe Eastern theology is the way to evangelize today's Western culture, because Eastern Christianity has always been more interested in admiring the mysteries of our faith while Western Christianity has typically focused more on nailing down reasons and logic. Neither is "better" than the other; it's simply a matter of using one to lead people to the other.

[bonkers]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1905176' date='Jun 29 2009, 10:06 AM']+J.M.J.+
the reason most abstinence only programs don't work is because they are secular - divorced from any mention of God and how He created us and our bodies.[/quote]

I don't think invoking the word 'god' in chastity programs will improve things. It will just confirm to people that these programs are driven by religious zealots who want to impart their moral agenda onto everyone else.

[Brother Adam]

So does that mean refusing to invoke the name of God in a chastity program will confirm to Christians that the programs are driven by athiest zealots who want to impart their moral agenda unto everyone else?

[bonkers]

[quote name='Brother Adam' post='1906014' date='Jun 30 2009, 12:10 AM']So does that mean refusing to invoke the name of God in a chastity program will confirm to Christians that the programs are driven by athiest zealots who want to impart their moral agenda unto everyone else?[/quote]

Why would atheist zealots want to promote chastity??

[mommas_boy]

[quote name='tinytherese' post='1905630' date='Jun 29 2009, 07:54 PM']Statistics

[url="http://www.chastity.com/seminars/index.php?id=62"]http://www.chastity.com/seminars/index.php?id=62[/url][/quote]

Awesome stats! Bookmarking!

[picchick]

[quote name='bonkers' post='1906016' date='Jun 30 2009, 01:17 AM']Why would atheist zealots want to promote chastity??[/quote]

chastity is not a Christian thing.

[bonkers]

[quote name='picchick' post='1906039' date='Jun 30 2009, 01:48 AM']chastity is not a Christian thing.[/quote]

according to some it is.

[picchick]

[quote name='bonkers' post='1906044' date='Jun 30 2009, 03:01 AM']according to some it is.[/quote]

Well that is their problem in seeing it as such, isn't it?

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='picchick' post='1906039' date='Jun 30 2009, 12:48 AM']chastity is not a Christian thing.[/quote]

well, when you explain it as "waiting to fulfill your relationship with God, etc" then it certainly sounds like it!

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1905939' date='Jun 29 2009, 10:24 PM']Well, the thing about beauty is when you encounter it, you need no convincing. That's the cool interplay between Truth and Beauty: Truth uses logic and arguments that require a mind that can distill emotion and attachment from a rational observation of facts; Beauty creates an experience that blows us away and changes us in ways that we never expected.[/quote]

truth and beauty: the first makes sense all the time for everyone, while the other is more of a whimsical "puppy dogs and unicorns" thing

"this is the way it works, because that sounds totally cool and pretty, and puppy dogs never lie!" doesnt really work for me. thats how you get stuff like the earth being flat and supported by 4 elephants standing on an intergalactic tortoise. sure it sounds cool but it has nothing to do with anything else.

Edited June 30, 2009 by Jesus_lol

[bonkers]

[quote name='picchick' post='1906046' date='Jun 30 2009, 03:03 AM']Well that is their problem in seeing it as such, isn't it?[/quote]

Well I think it demonstrates the weakness of the argument, that being that it needs "god" to make it effective.

[picchick]

[quote name='bonkers' post='1906052' date='Jun 30 2009, 03:21 AM']Well I think it demonstrates the weakness of the argument, that being that it needs "god" to make it effective.[/quote]

For us it makes it easier because then we understand the why behind it, thus making it effective. However, it doesn't necessarily need God behind it.

Abstinence requires discipline, unselfishness, care, true love. These things exist whether this is God or not.

[bonkers]

[quote name='picchick' post='1906059' date='Jun 30 2009, 02:52 AM']For us it makes it easier because then we understand the why behind it, thus making it effective. However, it doesn't necessarily need God behind it.

Abstinence requires discipline, unselfishness, care, true love. These things exist whether this is God or not.[/quote]

Well to most people abstinence requires sexual repression and frusturation. And to most people discipline, unselfishness, care and true love exist with or without abstinence.

[VeniteAdoremus]

If abstinence requires actual repression for a person, then they are a slave to their own lust. And everybody will encounter sexual frustration - people who abstain and people who don't. If your answer is to give in to that, again, you're letting yourself be ruled by your desires.

Rising above the level of direct impulses is something people of any religion and none can do.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1906048' date='Jun 30 2009, 04:12 AM']truth and beauty: the first makes sense all the time for everyone, while the other is more of a whimsical "puppy dogs and unicorns" thing[/quote]

Truth only makes sense some of the time to some people. That doesn't change what truth is; only means many of us are blinded by our pride, attachments, and plain ol' stubborness. Beauty, on the other hand, is self-evident...

[quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1906048' date='Jun 30 2009, 04:12 AM']"this is the way it works, because that sounds totally cool and pretty, and puppy dogs never lie!" doesnt really work for me. thats how you get stuff like the earth being flat and supported by 4 elephants standing on an intergalactic tortoise. sure it sounds cool but it has nothing to do with anything else.[/quote]

True or false: [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangeline_Lilly"]Evangeline Lilly[/url] is a beautiful woman.

Taking sexual attraction out of the picture, virtually every person you asked this question to would answer "true." The truth that she is beautiful is self evident. Likewise, nobody needs to be convinced that the sun setting off the Pacific coast is a beautiful sight to behold... or that Susan Boyle is a beautiful singer... beauty is supposedly "subjective" while truth is supposed to be "objective," yet there is apparently far more consensus about things that a truly beautiful than over matters of truth.