The Incarnation, Christ's Body, And Time

[icelandic_iceskater]

So I need some help understanding something. I would have posted this in the q&a section, but I figured I'd get a wider variety of responses here.

God exists outside of time... So can we assume that Christ existed in His glorified body outside of time before the the Incarnation?

(ok so I worded that weird... "outside of time..." ..."before" but I don't know how else to put it)

I do not understand this at all.

[kafka]

[quote name='icelandic_iceskater' post='1907486' date='Jul 1 2009, 06:37 PM']So I need some help understanding something. I would have posted this in the q&a section, but I figured I'd get a wider variety of responses here.

God exists outside of time... So can we assume that Christ existed in His glorified body outside of time before the the Incarnation?

(ok so I worded that weird... "outside of time..." ..."before" but I don't know how else to put it)

I do not understand this at all. [/quote]
you can phrase it in several different ways like 'beyond Time and Place' 'transcends Time and Place'

Here is a good quote from Eucharistia Ecclesiam to get you thinking:

"The Church has received the Eucharist from Christ her Lord not as one gift—however precious—among so many others, but as the gift par excellence, for it is the gift of himself, of his person in his sacred humanity, as well as the gift of his saving work. Nor does it remain confined to the past, since “all that Christ is—all that he did and suffered for all men—participates in the divine eternity, and so transcends all times”.

Christ’s saving work reached its apex in His sacrifice on the Cross. Therefore, the redeeming sacrifice of Christ on the Cross “participates in the divine eternity, and so transcends all times.”


There is another angle one could take. Heaven is beyond Time and Place since it is with God who is Eternity. So once the Humanity of Christ entered Heaven beyond Time and Place, His Humanity could be present to all Creation, throughout Time and Place, because Heaven is beyond Time and Place. From Heaven Christ may communicate His grace to everyone, everywhere and everywhen.

The Divine Nature of Christ is Etenity, however anything created has a starting point in Time and Place, so the Human Nature could not actually exist before it was created. Still since Jesus Christ is God and God is Eternity everything Christ accomplished is present beyond Time and Place by way of His Divinity.

It is a head-grinding, nut-cracking, total awesomeness, lay down prostrate in the face of

mystery

these sort of things are almost impossible to express, let alone fully grasp.

Edited July 2, 2009 by kafka

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='icelandic_iceskater' post='1907486' date='Jul 1 2009, 07:37 PM']So I need some help understanding something. I would have posted this in the q&a section, but I figured I'd get a wider variety of responses here.

God exists outside of time... So can we assume that Christ existed in His glorified body outside of time before the the Incarnation?

(ok so I worded that weird... "outside of time..." ..."before" but I don't know how else to put it)

I do not understand this at all. [/quote]

Well, the Incarnation is when the Person of Christ took on flesh, submitting himself to a human body in space and time. Since Christ has two natures, the human and divine, Christ is fully God and fully human even without a human body. When we die, our souls remain fully human in spite of not having a human body until the resurrection of the dead. Likewise, Christ is fully human even if he isn't walking around on earth with a body as we know him.

Edited July 2, 2009 by LouisvilleFan

[icelandic_iceskater]

hmm... thanks for the replies.

I think I need to go read up some more on time before I can began to try to understand this...

Anyone know of any good resources?

I tried listening to one of Kreeft's talks on time, but he lost me in the first 12 seconds.

[kafka]

A basic definition of Time is the fixed ordering and separation of events into before and after.

Place is the separation and ordering of things into here and there.

Time and Place is the ordering and seperation of created things. They are two aspects of basically the same thing thus the space-time of physics.


Which Kreeft article or talk? I'd like to take a look at it. Do you have a link Ice?

[icelandic_iceskater]

[quote name='kafka' post='1911993' date='Jul 5 2009, 09:07 PM']Which Kreeft article or talk? I'd like to take a look at it. Do you have a link Ice?[/quote]
[url="http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio/20_cslewis_time-eternity.htm"]"Time and Eternity"[/url] by Peter Kreeft

[url="http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio/29_lotr_fated-free.htm"]"Fated and Free"[/url] also talks a little about time & such.

[kafka]

[quote name='icelandic_iceskater' post='1912203' date='Jul 5 2009, 11:02 PM'][url="http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio/20_cslewis_time-eternity.htm"]"Time and Eternity"[/url] by Peter Kreeft

[url="http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio/29_lotr_fated-free.htm"]"Fated and Free"[/url] also talks a little about time & such.[/quote]
Thanks I'll probably listen to it this week

Here is an article written by one of Kreeft's former students:

[url="http://www.catholicplanet.com/MHT/time-eternity.htm"]Time and Eternity[/url]