Can Catholics Be Friends With A Sinner?

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1910418' date='Jul 4 2009, 04:59 AM']This is somewhat off topic, but do you consider it appropriate for married couples to passionately kiss in public?[/quote]

Personally, because I haven't looked up a good reference for it, yes I do believe it would be a sin. Showing love and affectionate is perfectly acceptable but it should be done in a way that does not introduce lust among themselves or causes of lust among anyone that might happen to see them. Fr. Jone (you have the book) says that a pretty girl with a moderate amount of make-up can bring about scandal in a man. So I think passionate kissing in public would do even more harm.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1910425' date='Jul 4 2009, 05:06 AM']thanks, I need to look at my copy (I've got the same book), but I'm still not seeing him placing sinful intimacy of a homosexual couple at a higher level than that of sinful intimacy among a hetero couple. Sure he uses the word malice, but for what purpose in this context? Anyways, I'm probably just reading it wrong. peace[/quote]

Here is another instance of the word [i]malice[/i] in regards to the sixth commandment:

"Fornication is voluntary sexual intercourse between unmarried persons, who are not bound by Holy Orders or vow and who are not related to one another by blood.
This mortal sins differs from other natural sins against chastity [he later mentions that adultery, rape, and incest are other natural sins against chastity] in this that aside from the sin of impurity it contains no other specific malice." (Ibid, p. 147)

He later states the added malice of adultery and rape is injustice, and that the added malice of incest is impiety.

If you are wondering how some sins against the sixth commandment are called "natural," it is to distinguish them from those considered "unnatural" (i.e. masturbation, sodomy, and bestiality).

(This is more for others reading than you since you said that you have the book )

Edited July 4, 2009 by Resurrexi

[VeniteAdoremus]

Hm...

In the past, as in, back when I had one, I would kiss my boyfriend on the cheek in greeting, even when we are in public. Passers-by would often think we are a gay couple and comment on this fact. If scandal is in the eye of the beholder, were we causing scandal?

Oh, and regarding the topic: yes, you can and should be friends with sinners. Otherwise you'd have no friends. Doesn't mean you automatically approve of everything they do.

[Resurrexi]

I thought that everyone in Europe greeted another by kissing him or her on the cheek?

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1910430' date='Jul 4 2009, 05:17 AM']Here is another instance of the word [i]malice[/i] in regards to the sixth commandment:

"Fornication is voluntary sexual intercourse between unmarried persons, who are not bound by Holy Orders or vow and who are not related to one another by blood.
This mortal sins differs from other natural sins against chastity [he later mentions that adultery, rape, and incest are other natural sins against chastity] in this that aside from the sin of impurity it contains no other specific malice." (Ibid, p. 147)

He later states the added malice of adultery and rape is injustice, and that the added malice of incest is impiety.

If you are wondering how some sins against the sixth commandment are called "natural," it is to distinguish them from those considered "unnatural" (i.e. masturbation, sodomy, and bestiality).

(This is more for others reading than you since you said that you have the book )[/quote]

cool thanks for clarifying. That makes more sense, and I'll read the parts in question tomorrow. I think I can agree with this now.

[Varg]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1910432' date='Jul 4 2009, 06:20 AM']I thought that everyone in Europe greeted another by kissing him or her on the cheek?[/quote]No, I been to Europe many times and that never happens. Don't generalise.

[VeniteAdoremus]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1910432' date='Jul 4 2009, 01:20 PM']I thought that everyone in Europe greeted another by kissing him or her on the cheek?[/quote]

Depends on the country and the level of formality.

And in the Netherlands two men usually don't kiss, and if they do, it's more a cheeks touching.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Varg' post='1910437' date='Jul 4 2009, 05:27 AM']No, I been to Europe many times and that never happens. Don't generalise.[/quote]

"[T]hat never happens" is no less a generalization than my statement.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Resurrexi

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1910431' date='Jul 4 2009, 05:17 AM']Hm...

In the past, as in, back when I had one, I would kiss my boyfriend on the cheek in greeting, even when we are in public. Passers-by would often think we are a gay couple and comment on this fact. If scandal is in the eye of the beholder, were we causing scandal?[/quote]

I think oftentimes people will think things no matter how careful you are in certain situations. Honestly I don't necessarily think a kiss on the cheek (even male to male) is inherently evil if sexual passion is felt or intended. In centuries past young men were far more friendly with each other than they are now, especially boy children, and it wasn't considered all that out of the ordinary, much like girls even now can often show many signs of affection among their gender (hugging, kissing on cheek, holding hands for short periods of time etc.) without too many people batting an eye and considering them lesbian.

But times do change, for better or worse, and I think people need to be careful when doing things that are not quite in line with current norms of accepted public behavior.

But inherently I don't think it is wrong.


[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1910431' date='Jul 4 2009, 05:17 AM']Oh, and regarding the topic: yes, you can and should be friends with sinners. Otherwise you'd have no friends. Doesn't mean you automatically approve of everything they do.[/quote]

agreed

[Resurrexi]

All men who have or had use of reason (except our Lord and our Lady) are sinners, so I do not think that being friends with sinners can be helped.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Resurrexi

[Varg]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1910439' date='Jul 4 2009, 06:29 AM']"[T]hat never happens" is no less a generalization than my statement.[/quote]Brah, I have European ancestory so I have more right to generalise Europeans than you do

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Varg' post='1910444' date='Jul 4 2009, 05:35 AM']Brah, I have European ancestory so I have more right to generalise Europeans than you do[/quote]

Just like most Americans, I have European ancestry too.

[Varg]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1910445' date='Jul 4 2009, 06:37 AM']Just like most Americans, I have European ancestry too.[/quote]I'M MORE EUROPEAN THAN YOU ARE!

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Varg' post='1910447' date='Jul 4 2009, 05:39 AM']I'M MORE EUROPEAN THAN YOU ARE![/quote]

You are not truly European.

To be truly European is to be Catholic.
You are not Catholic.
Q.E.D., you are not truly European.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Resurrexi

[Varg]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1910448' date='Jul 4 2009, 06:41 AM']You are not truly European.

To be truly European is to be Catholic.
You are not Catholic.
Q.E.D., you are not truly European.

[/quote]To be truly European is to be Pagan.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Varg' post='1910450' date='Jul 4 2009, 05:44 AM']To be truly European is to be Pagan.[/quote]

Paganism has not been the religion of Europe since the fourth century, when Theodosius made Catholicism the religion of the Roman Empire.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Resurrexi

[goldenchild17]

omg! lame lame so lame

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1910452' date='Jul 4 2009, 05:46 AM']omg! lame lame so lame[/quote]

iawtc

[Varg]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1910451' date='Jul 4 2009, 06:45 AM']Not since Theodosius made Catholicism the religion of the Roman Empire.[/quote]Nonetheless, the indegenous inhabitants of Europe were Pagan. They were the first. Therefore, to be [i]truly[/i] European you have to follow the original European religion which was Paganism.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Varg' post='1910454' date='Jul 4 2009, 05:46 AM']Nonetheless, the indegenous inhabitants of Europe were Pagan. They were the first. Therefore, to be [i]truly[/i] European you have to follow the original European religion which was Paganism.[/quote]

The indigenous peoples of Europe probably practiced the same primeval monotheism that Adam and Noah practiced, until this monotheism was largely degraded into paganism in most places.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Resurrexi