What Would You Say To The Person Who Wrote This?

[zunshynn]

This is by my cousin, who is one of those pastors of one of those "home-church" type things.

[quote]S)CRIPTURE

Hebrews 9:14-15 – ....

How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant. ....

O)BSERVATION

I wonder sometimes how much cultural relevance we miss when we read the bible. When you consider that the bible was written thousands of years ago, how much do we really comprehend when we read verses like this? I mean when was the last time any of us spent a great deal of time in a Jewish community. When was the last time you had to butcher an animal for lusting, or lying or touching something on accident that was ceremonially unclean? I just wonder how far down we can water and strip away the significance of what Jesus did with the atoning work on the cross. I mean I could be a bit religious or orthodox or corny or strict or whatever but, I mean how does Jesus feel about prepackaged communion cups?

Am I being weird? I just get the feeling we all too often glaze over communion like it is something to do like singing happy birthday. I mean the birthday song is really a passionless song sung out of routine and habit. By the time you hit like 14 or 15 years old no one sings it out of love or passion or excitement. Kids do. Little kids even add second third and fourth verses! But we take communion like we sing happy birthday to our grandma! We smile we open our mouths we go through the right motions. Is that what Christ meant when he passed the cup? When he broke bread and passed the cup was he just going through the motions? Was the last supper about doing a duty or establishing a covenant through relationship? Do we think of ways to minimalize our salvation? Or minimalize our birthdays or anniversaries? What if instead of the wedding cake they just passed out pre-packed cookies. What if instead of a Christmas tree we just hung a green car air freshener in our living room window? I may be over the top. I understand that. Yet, I have this overwhelming conviction that we do not give the work of His blood the reverence it deserves. Not in my life, not in my home, not when I attempt to take communion. He destroyed hundreds of year’s worth of blood and guilt and sin by one selfless act. I just think more honor and reverence should go into the remembrance than just a token juice cup and pre-packaged wafer. ....

A)PPLICATION

Ok so I go to the Holy Land walk the streets of Jerusalem collect bottles of kosher wine, and some handmade unleavened loaves of bread with fresh olive oil and flour. I kneel on glass and offer the most revered prayer in history as I break bread with my brethren at our fellowship in the front yard. Then I spend the rest of the week denying His works by the actions of my flesh. ....

I know the bread or the Wine does not make us Holy. I know that it is ultimately about our heart. I do believe also though, that there is a balance somewhere. We need to be reverent and holy in every aspect of our lives. How we live, how we eat, how we work, how we fellowship. Like being baptized does not save you, it is a symbol, but it is treated with reverence because of what it symbolizes. How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! Communion is the symbol of that blood! We are celebrating our freedom from death! We should be both excited and humbled. Fear and trembling. Tears of sorrow and tears of Joy.

P)RAYER

God help me to live my life in such a way that I do not dishonor the one who brought this glorious new covenant! Let my life be an example of your love and sacrifice! Dispel the hypocrisy that tends to run rampant in my heart. Purify me from myself! I love you Lord! Bring these things to fruition by the Blood of your covenant! In Jesus name AMEN!....[/quote]

[CatherineM]

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing especially when it comes to theology.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1919137' date='Jul 13 2009, 10:09 PM']A little knowledge is a dangerous thing especially when it comes to theology.[/quote]

+1, highlighting the need for authority

[LouisvilleFan]

I would ask where he came up with the acronym SOAP (Scripture, Observation, Application, Prayer)

As for a response to the theology... you could go into our differences on sacraments and especially Baptism and Eucharist, but when he says it's ultimately about your heart, I don't think that kind of response will hit home with him. I think what I would ask more about what he thinks causes people to fall into a cycle of only going through the motions and eventually try to work towards recognizing that no "system" or formula in itself is useful without a broken and contrite heart. From this point, he might be willing to consider the value of sacraments for a Catholic (or Lutheran, Anglican, etc.), as long as the heart continues to be stressed as the all-important variable to actually receiving and being molded by the grace Christ offers.

[InHisLove726]

I would say that his writing is full of theological errors, especially to the Catholic point of view.

[Macies]

I would advise Catholics to not read his material.

[pat22]

i would let him know what hot lead feels like flowing through your veins(JJ!).

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='pat22' post='1942979' date='Aug 7 2009, 04:53 PM']i would let him know what hot lead feels like flowing through your veins(JJ!).[/quote]
First it has to be 327.46 °C, 621.43 °F. Otherwise it won't flow.

[pat22]

if you ever run into a gun slinger. NEVER tell him that.

[Nihil Obstat]

You can't shoot a molten bullet.

[osapientia]

[quote name='zunshynn' post='1919108' date='Jul 13 2009, 09:38 PM']This is by my cousin, who is one of those pastors of one of those "home-church" type things.[/quote]
I came across this quite accidentally.....what I would tell your cousin is that if he feels in his heart that "communion" and the "work of His blood" ought to be more reverenced and special it is quite likely that is because the Holy Spirit is drawing him (your cousin) toward the fullness of Truth in The Church.

I would never squash the spirit of someone who is feeling led to offer more reverence, it is too likely that The Holy Spirit is whispering (SHOUTING EVEN) in that person's ear...."over here....WE HAVE THAT....come to US)

His conclusions and sacramentology (I don't think we're talking theology here) are erroneous...no doubt...but his desire (which he seems to be struggling a bit to describe) for more reverence.....that's too precious a "commodity" to ignore worrying about errors that can be corrected (with proper teaching of course).

Don't ignore this man, do read what he writes...I think his writing will give you a LOT of insight into just where the Lord is calling him.....HOME.

Find the positive and "frame it" in Truth.....he thinks "communion" should be more reverenced...well OF COURSE he's right about that part....start there and tell him WHY.l

Pax
osap

[Guest Perpetualove]

Osap,

You are the best! I love your reflections and the fact that you so often take the time to read things that are often very difficult to get through.

You had some excellent points!

Perpetualove

[zunshynn]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' date='15 July 2009 - 10:54 AM' timestamp='1247676840' post='1920608']
I would ask where he came up with the acronym SOAP (Scripture, Observation, Application, Prayer)

As for a response to the theology... you could go into our differences on sacraments and especially Baptism and Eucharist, but when he says it's ultimately about your heart, I don't think that kind of response will hit home with him. I think what I would ask more about what he thinks causes people to fall into a cycle of only going through the motions and eventually try to work towards recognizing that no "system" or formula in itself is useful without a broken and contrite heart. From this point, he might be willing to consider the value of sacraments for a Catholic (or Lutheran, Anglican, etc.), as long as the heart continues to be stressed as the all-important variable to actually receiving and being molded by the grace Christ offers.
[/quote]

Sorry, I'd forgotten I started this thread. I'm not sure where he got the acronym from... every day, or every couple of days, he does one in his notes on Facebook. I guess it's an approach to scripture he encourages his... congregation? I don't know what you'd call it to do. A lot of it is like this... there's such deep insight sometimes, but he's convinced that it's "not about religion" kind of thing...


[quote name='osapientia' date='11 August 2009 - 02:37 PM' timestamp='1250023021' post='1946361']
I came across this quite accidentally.....what I would tell your cousin is that if he feels in his heart that "communion" and the "work of His blood" ought to be more reverenced and special it is quite likely that is because the Holy Spirit is drawing him (your cousin) toward the fullness of Truth in The Church.

I would never squash the spirit of someone who is feeling led to offer more reverence, it is too likely that The Holy Spirit is whispering (SHOUTING EVEN) in that person's ear...."over here....WE HAVE THAT....come to US)

His conclusions and sacramentology (I don't think we're talking theology here) are erroneous...no doubt...but his desire (which he seems to be struggling a bit to describe) for more reverence.....that's too precious a "commodity" to ignore worrying about errors that can be corrected (with proper teaching of course).

Don't ignore this man, do read what he writes...I think his writing will give you a LOT of insight into just where the Lord is calling him.....HOME.

Find the positive and "frame it" in Truth.....he thinks "communion" should be more reverenced...well OF COURSE he's right about that part....start there and tell him WHY.l
[/quote]

Thanks for the thoughts... I actually was not really planning on talking to him or anything, as we aren't very close... but I might, here and there, drop just little things to make him think...