Healthcare....again

[rachael]

OK, what is the point of our current health system really?

I can't get a decent, affordable health insurance because I am not healthy enough. The only ones that will take me are ones that will charge me $250/month for insurance and then $250 OR MORE for just copay on my (1 and only at the moment) medication. As a just graduated college student, I cannot afford such things. And for other reasons, I cannot go onto Medicare, nor am I eligible for disability because apparently, [i]I do not have enough seizures. [/i] As far as doctor's visits go, the only ones that I am able to get fairly quickly is my general practitioner. Otherwise, it is usually a 6 to 8 week wait. Now, please tell me again...how good is the American health system?

Edited July 18, 2009 by rachael

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='rachael' post='1923173' date='Jul 18 2009, 12:26 AM']OK, what is the point of our current health system really?

I can't get a decent, affordable health insurance because I am not healthy enough. The only ones that will take me are ones that will charge me $250/month for insurance and then $250 OR MORE for just copay on my (1 and only at the moment) medication. As a just graduated college student, I cannot afford such things. And for other reasons, I cannot go onto Medicare, nor am I eligible for disability because apparently, [i]I do not have enough seizures. [/i] As far as doctor's visits go, the only ones that I am able to get fairly quickly is my general practitioner. Otherwise, it is usually a 6 to 8 week wait. Now, please tell me again...how good is the American health system? [/quote]
My son works two jobs and can't afford health insurance, so I hear ya.

[rachael]

I don't know if the changes that Obama wants done would necessarily do much better, BUT they may help...somewhere. This is ridiculous.

What else is there to do?

[Angel*Star]

I understand your frustration, but even you admit would it really help? Who gets to decide who gets treatment and who does not? What one thing does the government run that is truly working?

[dairygirl4u2c]

it all comes down to good policy making. folks who are in power, don't know what they are doing.
but, then, it also comes down to lots of empirical questions, such as whether the government can do things cheaper, and by cheaper, i don't mean, as many democrats do, not just taxing and spending it's way out of the mess. not really cheaper if ya ask me. things like, 'isn't medicare's costs for profit only three percent, compared to private sector?" so can't the they do it cheaper?" or, can't the government just subsidize the people and require copays, and deductibles, or some carrot and stick combination, like good policy makers?, and leave out the middle man, writing blank checks to insurance companies? and instead of throwing money at life ending consumption of money, put caps on just like insurance companies do?" there's a lot of empirical uncertainty here. but i think most is just they don't know what they're doing, honestly.
plus the procatical probelm of a complex issue not resovlable by a beast like congress, but.

and then the i think obvious that are overlooked. "aren't the insurance companies just feeding off each others, and the free boaters and those who abuse their freedom insurance, and make it all inaccessible for the poorer?" yes almost surely though on this. "aren't the medical schools liable for not opening more schools, given they've stopped in the eigthies and more haven't been open, such that there's a lot of students who would be very smart qualifeid but are not able to attend?, such taht demand is exceeding supply? all in the name of keeping people safe, or protectionism for doctors who make almost two hundredthousand ayear on average?"yes almost surely
or, 'why do insurance companies allow regular folks like engineers ahve no deductibels etc, and that cuases prices to go up when the supply for frivilous things" regularions seem warranted.
they seem warranted in lots of places too.
or, litigation prevention ideas so doctors don't feel the need to do frivilous things.
or a better system, as obama is concedely doing, like networks, so there's not redundancy in check ups etc cause someone merely moves. i see this a lot as a recent student who moves.
etc.

Edited July 18, 2009 by dairygirl4u2c

[dairygirl4u2c]

ya always got to draw the line at the government sending in a swat team to change a light bulb, for sure.

[Archaeology cat]

I agree that it's ridiculous, rachael. Thus my defence of the NHS.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1923546' date='Jul 18 2009, 03:30 AM']I agree that it's ridiculous, rachael. Thus my defence of the NHS. [/quote]
I have heard quite a few horror stories of medical treatment under their auspices, so I am not convinced they are the answer either.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1923674' date='Jul 18 2009, 12:34 PM']I have heard quite a few horror stories of medical treatment under their auspices, so I am not convinced they are the answer either.[/quote]
There are horror stories for any type of medical coverage.

[rachael]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1923675' date='Jul 18 2009, 07:40 AM']There are horror stories for any type of medical coverage.[/quote]


Honestly, I am not sure what would work. The current system doesn't work. Would Obama's proposed system work? I don't know. But, it may be better.

[Maggyie]

I think most people in these situations just get jobs at companies that offer health insurance. I know at my company they can't ask you about pre-existing conditions for medical.

One thing I have noticed is that overhauling the health care system is a primarily middle class concern, which must be why it keeps coming up, if it was a problem that was affecting poor people it would never be discussed! People who have incomes at or below the poverty line get great healthcare in the US, because ultimately they are not required to pay. People with huge incomes don't care because they can afford it anyway. It's the people in the middle, who don't make huge amounts of money but make too much to qualify for help, who get squeezed.

As a recent grad I assume you don't have a history of really high income! I don't know if you've tried this yet or not but maybe call the company that makes your medication and ask if they have a patient assistance program. So many of these companies have programs waiting to be used and people don't even know they exist. Sometimes you can actually get the medication for free! That is what my sister ended up doing and it saved her thousands of dollars.

Personally I am not a fan of government-run healthcare. In my family's situation my sister would probably not have gotten the surgery she needed as soon as she did - it was an expensive surgery and it was not an emergency situation.

It was her doctors who ultimately determined it was time to go in and remove her organs, and that is who should be making the decisions, not a civil servant who is sitting in an office 500 miles away from the situation, who hasn't examined and doesn't know the patient, who doesn't know medicine or what is really going on. I can't imagine what it would be like to have someone who is basically a post office employee tying her doctor's hands and saying "sorry it's not approved." And that would be it! Nothing the doctor could do to get around it no matter their medical opinion! I suppose there would probably be an appeals process, so we could probably submit that form and wait around for another six months while she lay in a hospital bed with her guts bleeding out of her.

Edited July 18, 2009 by Maggie

[CatherineM]

There is also the issue that you have placed yourself into an abusive situation because of your medical needs. When the two year welfare rule went into affect (I don't know if that is still in place or not), there were women staying in abusive situations because at least he paid the rent. People avoid having children out of fear of how much they are going to cost. People stay in jobs that they hate or are killing them because they need the health insurance. What freedom is there in the way things are?

[rachael]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1923758' date='Jul 18 2009, 12:31 PM']There is also the issue that you have placed yourself into an abusive situation because of your medical needs. When the two year welfare rule went into affect (I don't know if that is still in place or not), there were women staying in abusive situations because at least he paid the rent. People avoid having children out of fear of how much they are going to cost. People stay in jobs that they hate or are killing them because they need the health insurance. What freedom is there in the way things are?[/quote]
Yes. I am going out of my mind with this whole situation. I used to think, why would people do such a thing to themselves? Why do they just get out? Well, when you're desperate, and the are little to no other options....what can you do?

It's in this, and many, many other ways that this current system is failing me and so many others.

Edited July 18, 2009 by rachael

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='CatherineM' post='1923758' date='Jul 18 2009, 02:31 PM']There is also the issue that you have placed yourself into an abusive situation because of your medical needs. When the two year welfare rule went into affect (I don't know if that is still in place or not), there were women staying in abusive situations because at least he paid the rent. People avoid having children out of fear of how much they are going to cost. People stay in jobs that they hate or are killing them because they need the health insurance. What freedom is there in the way things are?[/quote]

As far as the abuse thing goes, that does NOT have to happen. There are resources out there, private and public, that can help. Go to Catholic Charities, and they WILL help. I know a family living in a house rent free; it was donated to them by Catholic Charities. An entire house.

If all else fails, dial 211. They get people quick help with counseling, health care, food, shelter, you name it.

It is a destructive myth that people have to stay in abusive situations to get their basic needs taken care of. There is ALWAYS a choice. There is ALWAYS another way.

As far as people avoiding kids because of how much they cost, or people staying in jobs they don't like for financial reasons ... I don't think free healthcare is going to change those things all that much.

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='rachael' post='1923764' date='Jul 18 2009, 02:41 PM']Yes. I am going out of my mind with this whole situation. I used to think, why would people do such a thing to themselves? Why do they just get out? Well, when you're desperate, and the are little to no other options....what can you do?

It's in this, and many, many other ways that this current system is failing me and so many others.[/quote]



[url="http://www.211.org/"]Dial 211 for help[/url]

It takes a LOT of courage, but you DO have a choice ...

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Maggie' post='1923754' date='Jul 18 2009, 06:12 PM']It was her doctors who ultimately determined it was time to go in and remove her organs, and that is who should be making the decisions, not a civil servant who is sitting in an office 500 miles away from the situation, who hasn't examined and doesn't know the patient, who doesn't know medicine or what is really going on. I can't imagine what it would be like to have someone who is basically a post office employee tying her doctor's hands and saying "sorry it's not approved." And that would be it! Nothing the doctor could do to get around it no matter their medical opinion! I suppose there would probably be an appeals process, so we could probably submit that form and wait around for another six months while she lay in a hospital bed with her guts bleeding out of her.[/quote]
And it is my GP who approves what medical treatment I get, as well. Just because medicine is socialised doesn't mean every medical decision is called in by a hierarchy. And unfortunately insurance companies sometimes refuse to cover certain procedures, regardless of what the doctor says. As I keep saying, there are horror stories with all types of health care.

[add]

The President of the United States is proceeding rapidly with Health Care reform. It appears that it will soon become the law of the land.
Under the guise of healthcare, this health care reform plan will force Americans to pay for or participate in abortion and the destruction of the lives of millions of children in the womb.

Edited July 18, 2009 by apparently

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='rachael' post='1923716' date='Jul 18 2009, 08:41 AM']

Honestly, I am not sure what would work. The current system doesn't work. Would Obama's proposed system work? I don't know. But, it may be better. [/quote]
Some of it will help, some won't. I like the idea of government run insurance [b]for the sake[/b] of providing competition to private companies.

This seems to be helpful:
[url="http://www.webmd.com/news/20090717/faq-making-sense-of-health-care-reform?src=RSS_PUBLIC"]http://www.webmd.com/news/20090717/faq-mak...?src=RSS_PUBLIC[/url]

Edited July 18, 2009 by fidei defensor

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='apparently' post='1923818' date='Jul 18 2009, 03:13 PM']The President of the United States is proceeding rapidly with Health Care reform. It appears that it will soon become the law of the land.
Under the guise of healthcare, this health care reform plan will force Americans to pay for or participate in abortion and the destruction of the lives of millions of children in the womb.[/quote]

While the democrats are running with this with Obama leading them....I really don't think they are going to get anywhere.

Will the private insurance companies idly sit by and watch this happen? While the rock is being pushed to the top of the hill, there are many things that need to be worked out.

Even if Obama and company get their plan passed.......there is no way that it will be a dream pill and there will be many angry people......angry people who will vote next election against the democrats.....

With this health plan, the democrats are digging their grave. This plan has been rushed way too fast for it to be quality.

Then there is the issue of paying for it. Let's say they pass it.......how they gonna pay it? By raising taxes on the middle class.

This war is far from over or lost. I have hope


----------------
Now playing: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/matt+maher/track/lay+it+down"]Matt Maher - Lay It Down[/url]
via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url]

[eagle_eye222001]

[quote name='fidei defensor' post='1923831' date='Jul 18 2009, 03:44 PM']Some of it will help, some won't. I like the idea of government run insurance [b]for the sake[/b] of providing competition to private companies.

This seems to be helpful:
[url="http://www.webmd.com/news/20090717/faq-making-sense-of-health-care-reform?src=RSS_PUBLIC"]http://www.webmd.com/news/20090717/faq-mak...?src=RSS_PUBLIC[/url][/quote]

Will the private insurance companies be able to survive though? The government will have more resources and will have an incentive the drive the private sector out.

I don't see a coexistence happening with this.

----------------
Now playing: [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/creed/track/higher"]Creed - Higher[/url]
via [url="http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/"]FoxyTunes[/url]