dairygirl4u2c Posted July 10, 2010 Author Posted July 10, 2010 [quote name='Hilde' date='10 July 2010 - 02:54 AM' timestamp='1278744896' post='2140618'] um what? Are you saying atheists believe there is an uncased cause that is not god? In many religions the attributes of a god is that he is creative and doesn't follow the natural rules. So something uncaused that causes something would have similar attributes to that of many religions. Some believe that he created something and stepped away, and some say he still watchesus and intervenes. [/quote] yeah, i know of a few that believe that. plus, at least philsophically, i dont know how one would argue that there is not such thing as an uncaused cause. it just makes sense. even if we get into the primordial soup stuff, or the quantum stuff mentioned as alternatives to 'God', those things would have been uncaused causes. course, it's possible there was an infinite chain of cause and effect (mind blowing for sure if so), and im sure most wold acknowledge that possibliity. either way though, an uncaused cause, or an infinite chain, are both things we've never seen as humans. bikes rolling taht we'd attribute to a cause, is nothing to compare with these things. so, as those for "god" or those against the idea.... we shouldnt be assuming we can simply necessarily use an alaogy and it be perfect, cause these concepts are distinctly different at their purest form. anyways, id assume most atheists would go for the 'uncaused cause' concept. could be wrong. most of this is just fluff, the disagreements, pertaining to what it means to argue 'God' did it.
Winchester Posted July 10, 2010 Posted July 10, 2010 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='10 July 2010 - 09:25 AM' timestamp='1278768303' post='2140713'] yeah, i know of a few that believe that. plus, at least philsophically, i dont know how one would argue that there is not such thing as an uncaused cause. it just makes sense. even if we get into the primordial soup stuff, or the quantum stuff mentioned as alternatives to 'God', those things would have been uncaused causes. course, it's possible there was an infinite chain of cause and effect (mind blowing for sure if so), and im sure most wold acknowledge that possibliity. either way though, an uncaused cause, or an infinite chain, are both things we've never seen as humans. bikes rolling taht we'd attribute to a cause, is nothing to compare with these things. so, as those for "god" or those against the idea.... we shouldnt be assuming we can simply necessarily use an alaogy and it be perfect, cause these concepts are distinctly different at their purest form. anyways, id assume most atheists would go for the 'uncaused cause' concept. could be wrong. most of this is just fluff, the disagreements, pertaining to what it means to argue 'God' did it. [/quote] [img]https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo17/ab/af/c9fbd84d460c__1278746228000.jpg[/img]
dairygirl4u2c Posted July 10, 2010 Author Posted July 10, 2010 im speaking without explaining every premise and assumption. i assume the readers have read my initial postings, and are familiar with it. it's like walking ito the middle of a conversation and not knowing what they are takling about, cause they speak too vague given they dont need to explain everything to you but undersatnd all previosly said assumptios. or, it's like jumping into the middle of a work of philsophy, and not knowing what he's talking about, cause you didn't start at the beginning, etc. plus im just generally sloppy sometimes. more of the above stuff, though.
Papist Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) [font="Tahoma"][size="2"]Go to [url="http://www.peterkreeft.com/featured-writing.htm"]www.peterkreeft.com/featured-writing.htm[/url][/size][/font] [font="Tahoma"] [/font][font="Tahoma"][size="2"]I also highly recommend,[/size][/font] [font="Tahoma"] [/font] [font="Tahoma"][size="2"]BOOKS:[/size][/font] [font="Tahoma"][size="2"]- Because God Is Real: Sixteen Questions, One Answer by PeterKreeft[/size][/font] [font="Tahoma"][size="2"]- The Privileged Planet by Guillermo Gonzalez [there's a DVD,but the book is more in depth][/size][/font] [font="Tahoma"][font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"]- [/font][size="2"]A Meaningful World: How the Arts and Sciences Reveal theGenius of Nature by Ben Wiker[/size][/font] [font="Tahoma"] [/font] [font="Tahoma"][size="2"]DVD:[/size][/font] [font="Tahoma"][font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"]- [/font][size="2"]Wonders of God's Creation, Vol. 1-6 [/size][/font] [font="Tahoma"][font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"]- [/font][size="2"]Unlocking the Mystery of Life[/size][/font] Edited January 24, 2011 by Papist
sixpence Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 u aren't going to get Scientific proof of God obviously... He constrained to the natural world...so hypothesis testing is out the window... you have to investigate Him spiritually...
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1248063726' post='1925294'] You should see the movie "Expelled." [/quote] I've only read the first two posts of this thread so far but I must say that "Expelled" is an extremely trashy propaganda piece which deserves to be shunned by honest religious believers imo.
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 Okay, read it. Meesa have nothin else to say.
Winchester Posted January 24, 2011 Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1295896045' post='2203846'] I've only read the first two posts of this thread so far but I must say that "Expelled" is an extremely trashy propaganda piece which deserves to be shunned by honest religious believers imo. [/quote] Bah. I watched it and it wasn't bad at all.
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1295911181' post='2203969'] Bah. I watched it and it wasn't bad at all. [/quote] I found the film's level of flim flam to be nauseating and intolerable. It is about as bad as Dawkins' documentary The God Delusion (formerly The Root of All Evil?) in my opinion. Okay, maybe not quite that bad. I really don't think that such films are a good way for people to learn about serious issues. My opinion of that movie is similar to my opinion of the Intelligent Design movement in general: cr[s][/s]ap. My review in a nutshell: slimy journalistic dishonesty promoting junk science in a highly patronizing and radicalized manner.
Winchester Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 I don't remember it promoting any science of any sort. Even junk science.
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1295917571' post='2204016'] I don't remember it promoting any science of any sort. Even junk science. [/quote] Me too, intelligent design is not science. But, the film pretends that it is so, and perhaps the primary purpose of the film is to allege the legitimacy of the intelligent design movement. Did we watch the same movie?
Mark of the Cross Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' timestamp='1278768303' post='2140713'] yeah, i know of a few that philsophically believe that. plus, at least , i dont know how one would as an uncaused cause. it just makes sense. even if we get into the primordial soup stuff, or the quantum stuff mentioned as alternatives to 'God', argue that there is not such thing those things would have been there was an infinite chain of (mind blowing for sure if so), and im sure most wold uncaused causes. course, it's possible acknowledge cause and effect that possibliity. either way though, are both things we've never seen as humans. bikes rolling taht we'd attribute to a an uncaused cause, or an infinite chain, cause, is nothing to compare so, as those uncaused causes. course for "god" or those against the idea... with these things.. we shouldnt be assuming we can simply necessarily use an uncaused causes. course alaogy and it be perfect, cause these concepts are distinctly different at their purest form. anyways, id assume concept. could be wrong. most of this is just fluff, the disagreements, most atheists would go for the 'uncaused cause' uncaused causes. course pertaining to what it means to argue 'God' did it uncaused causes. course [/quote] [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1278773597' post='2140724'] [img]https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo17/ab/af/c9fbd84d460c__1278746228000.jpg[/img] [/quote] I rearranged it does it make sense now or was I too sloppy? Edited January 25, 2011 by Mark of the Cross
AudreyGrace Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 Alot of people say God doesn't exist, because "if he did, then why is there suffering and sorrow and evil in the world? why is there cancer and aids? If God is good, wouldn't the world only be good?" and on and on. But like my friend Thomas Aquinas says, God exists and God is ultimate good because rather than there just being good, he created evil, so as to get good out of evil. Err.. umm... something like that.
infinitelord1 Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 [quote name='AudreyGrace' timestamp='1296189671' post='2205560'] Alot of people say God doesn't exist, because "if he did, then why is there suffering and sorrow and evil in the world? why is there cancer and aids? If God is good, wouldn't the world only be good?" and on and on. But like my friend Thomas Aquinas says, God exists and God is ultimate good because rather than there just being good, he created evil, so as to get good out of evil. Err.. umm... something like that. [/quote] I dont believe that God created evil. I think he created something and it chose to become evil out of its own freewill.
dairygirl4u2c Posted January 28, 2011 Author Posted January 28, 2011 he did create the conditions for evil to exist though. and he did create suffering that has nothing to do with anyone beig evil, eg, being born with diseases and suffering etc. just sayin
AudreyGrace Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 clarification: i don't mean suffering etc as "evil" thank you, dairygirl, for making me realize that what I said may be misconstrued.
Sarah147 Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Evil came from the disobediance, out of freewill, from the angels and Adam/Eve. God is all good and only good comes from God. God ALLOWS evil, and grows us into Saints through suffering, but nothing in God is evil. I don't know where Grace got that about "(God) He created evil".
Mark of the Cross Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 Yesterday my daughter was standing waiting for a tram, as one left some brats spat at her. Out of too much easy life comes evil. A gentleman and a lady came to her aid with words of kindness. Out of suffering and hardship comes goodness and kindness.
Deb Posted February 12, 2011 Posted February 12, 2011 God is real. For those who have been given the gift of faith, no proof is necessary. To those who have not the gift of faith, no amount of proof will ever be enough. If you look at all the miracles that have occurred and are still occurring in this world and they can have thousands of witnesses and it is never enough for the Dawkins crowd. (whose arguments are total crud to begin with.) So, just take my word for it. God exists. Jesus Christ exists, the Holy Spirit exists, the Blessed Mother exists. They are really amesome too. I pray you can all meet them some day.
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