Trappists/trappistines

[DevotedtoHim]

I don't think anybody here has ever talked about discerning with them. Has anybody and what has your experience been? Why do you think we haven't discussed them?
TIA,
Katherine

[VeniteAdoremus]

Probably because they're pretty close to many Benedictines? I don't know

There are trappists and trappistines in my country, both orthodox. The brother of a good friend is entering with the trappists after he finishes his studies next year. The nuns just moved to a new monastery because the outer world had grown too close around them.

[Hilde]

I'm going on a retreat with cistercians soon, other than that i have no experience.

[VeniteAdoremus]

[quote name='Hilde' post='1934908' date='Jul 29 2009, 11:11 PM']I'm going on a retreat with cistercians soon, other than that i have no experience.[/quote]

If they're the sisters I think they are, tell the Dutch sister tall Anna says hi

[Hilde]

Haha, it will be interesting because I've never had a close encounter with this order or gone to a retreat with a more contemplative order.

I don't know why they're not talked about so much really. I don't know how many of them you have over there.

[littlesister]

One guess that the Trappistines are not as well known here as some other Orders is that they have no recent well-known Saint or Blessed (like St. Therese or St. Teresa Benedicta) to draw attention to them.
Another guess is that they have many fewer monasteries than some other Orders, and in general they are more complicated to reach.
The Trappistines have a wonderful charism, a perfect liturgy, and a balanced life. They also have beautiful web sites, especially St. Mary's Abbey in Wrentham, Massachusetts - where we've made some blessed retreats - and others in Sonoita, AZ, Charlottesville VA., and Our Lady of the Vallley in Iowa.
All have guesthouses, acres of property, and easy retreat possibilities. To those who are discerning a cloistered calling : God bless your journey and don't overlook them!

[puellapaschalis]

[url="http://www.ocso.org/HTM/7atls-en.htm"]The Atlas Martyrs[/url] are pretty much the only recent Cistercian saints I can think of. They're inspiring.

[DevotedtoHim]

I like this website: [url="http://abbey.msmabbey.org/"]http://abbey.msmabbey.org/[/url]

Also, I find the story and martyrdom of those men very inspiring and extremely holy.

Katherine

[Luigi]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1935885' date='Jul 30 2009, 06:38 PM'][url="http://www.ocso.org/HTM/7atls-en.htm"]The Atlas Martyrs[/url] are pretty much the only recent Cistercian saints I can think of. They're inspiring.[/quote]

A recent news story about that - the original story was that they were killed by a radical Muslim group, but about two weeks ago, a French general came forward with what he claims is the truth: The Algerian army mistakenly killed the monks and BLAMED their deaths on the radical Muslims.

I don't know if we'll ever know the truth of the matter, but they may not have been martyred, at least not according to the classic definition.

[littlesister]

Thanks for the addition. I wasn't thinking in terms of monks, but should have been. The monks of Tibhirine were our confessors in Algiers! The whole community knew them, and their deaths were a terrible blow. One of the sisters subsequently came back to the States and praised them all to the heavens, where they doubtless are. Pere Christian's testament is magnificent.

[Luigi]

The Trappistines have five monasteries in the US; most refer to themselves as Trappist/Trappistine, but one or two prefer "Cistercian". Trappists are technically "Cistercians of the Strict Observance - OCSO - and the Trappists & Cistercians collaborate on some projects such as publications; they seem to get along quite well. The oldest Trappistine convent in the US is the monastery in Wrentham, MA, founded from Ireland. Our Lady of the Mississippi (in Iowa) is Wrentham's first daughter house; Santa Rita in Arizona is the second (I'm pretty sure - Santa Rita might have been founded FROM Iowa, but at any rate, they're all in the same line of descent); Our Lady of the Angels (Virginia) is the most recent Wrentham foundation. Our Lady of Redwoods (California) was founded from Belgium. Wrentham has about 45 vowed nuns (about 6 or 8 in formation), Iowa has about 22 (2 in formation), Arizona has 9 I think (2 in formation), Virginia has 7 (2 in formation), and California has 9 or 10 (2 or 3 in formation). Iowa used to be slightly bigger, but they sent six nuns to found a monastery in Norway ten years ago; incoming vocations offset the loss of the nuns who went to Norway. BTW, the house in Norway has 3 in formation. The Trappistine nuns in the US are doing quite well, vocationally, even though three of the houses would be considered pretty small. Anyone who's looking for a more intimate community might consider them.

As for the monks, there are twelve monasteries in three branches - St. Joseph in MA & Holy Cross in VA are connected; New Melleray in Iowa (founded from Ireland) & Assumption in Ava, MO (Iowa's daughter house) are connected; Gethsemani in KY (founded from France, basically) is the motherhouse of all the others (Genesee in NY, Holy Spirit in SC, Mepkin in GA, Guadalupe in WA (?), New Clairvaux in OR (?), Holy Trinity in UT, and St. Benedict's in CO). St. Joseph, Gethsemani, and Holy Spirit are large (say 60, 55, and 50 monks respectively), and Assumption is the smallest (about 10), with the others ranging between. All of the male monasteries have at least one man in formation; Holy Trinity isn't the smallest, but it seems to be the oldest in terms of average age & few vocations recently. St. Joseph, Gethsemani, New Melleray, and Holy Spirit, have had a steady stream of vocations; St. Benedict's is doing well; Mepkin & Ava have started to increase recently. I doubt that any of the monasteries are thriving to the point of founding new daughter houses in the foreseeable future, but it's nice to know that they are at least stable and that some are growing slowly but steadily.

The best resource for all things Trappist(ine) - the monks & nuns collaborate in many ways - is the worldwide website, www.ocso.org. You have to open the English version (French & Spanish are also available), and then you can find the street addresses, email addresses, and webpage URLs of all the houses. All of the American houses have web pages, and almost all of those show when the next Come & See Weekend is. Many of the monasteries also allow extended live-ins independent of Come & See Weekends. And almost all of them have retreat facilities, too, if anyone is interested in that. The worldwide website also shows the statistics of monks & nuns for 2008, an up-to-date necrology, and all sorts of other interesting stuff. For being "out of the world," this order is technologically up to date, which is great for discerners.

[VeniteAdoremus]

Wow, fantastic information! It's really nice to hear that they're doing so well.

There are some monks and nuns in formation in the .nl monasteries as well.

[url="http://www.koningsoord.org/default_en.htm"]English website of the nuns[/url] (with loads of pictures of their brand-new monastery)

[url="http://www.koningshoeven.nl/en/"]English website of the monks[/url] (who make beer, a good Trappist tradition)

[DevotedtoHim]

I am still confused as to the difference because of how they refer to themselves. Both the O.Cist's (like WI) and the Trappists call themselves Cistercians. (?!!)

[VeniteAdoremus]

All Trappists are Cistercians, but not all Cistercians are Trappists

I think they call themselves Cistercians because the name is better known.

[puellapaschalis]

The Cistercians (Order of Cistercians of the Ancient Observance is their "modern" name) began as a reform of the Benedictines. The Trappists (Order of Cistercians of the Strict Observance) began as a reform of the Cistercians.

Whilst we wouldn't normally called Cistercians and Trappists "Benedictines" (although technically they are, because they follow the Rule of St. Benedict), one can [i]just about[/i] get away with calling a Trappist a Cistercian.

Both OCAO and OCSO make very good beer.

[VeniteAdoremus]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1936738' date='Jul 31 2009, 10:03 PM']The Cistercians (Order of Cistercians of the Ancient Observance is their "modern" name) began as a reform of the Benedictines. The Trappists (Order of Cistercians of the Strict Observance) began as a reform of the Cistercians.

Whilst we wouldn't normally called Cistercians and Trappists "Benedictines" (although technically they are, because they follow the Rule of St. Benedict), one can [i]just about[/i] get away with calling a Trappist a Cistercian.

Both OCAO and OCSO make very good beer.[/quote]

One would wonder what's wrong with the Benedictines, that they need two reforms to straighten them out...



*runs*

[Thomist-in-Training]

[quote name='puellapaschalis' post='1936738' date='Jul 31 2009, 03:03 PM']The Cistercians (Order of Cistercians of the Ancient Observance is their "modern" name) began as a reform of the Benedictines. The Trappists (Order of Cistercians of the Strict Observance) began as a reform of the Cistercians.

Whilst we wouldn't normally called Cistercians and Trappists "Benedictines" (although technically they are, because they follow the Rule of St. Benedict), one can [i]just about[/i] get away with calling a Trappist a Cistercian.

Both OCAO and OCSO make very good beer.[/quote]

Ours in Dallas write it O.Cist. I don't know why.
I wish they made beer. That would be awesome. One of my friends works for them though and says they are posh.

[Luigi]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1936976' date='Jul 31 2009, 06:13 PM']One would wonder what's wrong with the Benedictines, that they need two reforms to straighten them out...



*runs*[/quote]

I know in my soul that VeniteAdoremus was joking above (smile and nod, even if you weren't), and she herself probably knows the history of the Benedictines, Cistercians, and Trappists, but I include a brief and rather vague history here for some of the less widely read phatmass phamily. Ahem ... (clears throat and proceeds) ...

Around 450 AD, Benedict & Scholastica (biological brother & sister - twins, I believe) founded the Benedictine male & female branches. Fine - things went swimmingly for centuries, but then the order began to descend into decadence - too much land, money, & power, relaxation of practices & rules, secularization - all due to extremely complex social forces, etc.

Sts. Robert, Stephen, & Alberic, Benedictines in the monastery at Citeaux, reformed their monastery (plural?) to bring it back to the original Benedictine practices - I think this was about 1100, but if you want to be sure, look it up yourself. Many monasteries followed their lead and adopted the reforms instituted at Citeaux; monasteries that didn't participate in the reform remained OSB. (Citeaux is the French form of the place name; the Latin form led to the Order being called the Cistercians - hence O.Cist.). Fine - things went swimmingly for centuries, but then the Cistercians began to fall into decadence - too much land, money, & power, relaxation of practices & rules, secularization - all due to extremely complex social forces, etc.

About 1750 (ditto - if you want to be sure of the date, look it up yourself), Abbot de Rance of the Cistercian monastery at La Trappe decided to reform his monastery back to the original Cistercian observances (which you will recall were the original Benedictine observances). Since the Order of Cistercians (O.Cist.) were not being very strict with themselves, de Rance's group got labeled officially "Cistercians of the Strict Observance" (abbreviated OCSO) but referred to popularly as "The Trappists" (from the location of the monastery, La Trappe). Monasteries that didn't adopt the reforms remained O.Cist.

The early days of the Trappists were hectic, to say the least - the French Revolution & whatnot. But the Benedictine family, as it's now called, has always done good work, all three movements have had male & female monasteries, and the O.Cists & OCSOs get along quite well these days:The Trappists acknowledge that they are a flavor of Cistercians, which is why some of the Trappist monasteries refer to themselves as Cistercians on their websites; the Cistercian & Trappists collaborate on a journal of Cistercian Studies (articles from both branches get published, topics from both branches, in the libraries of both branches, etc); the O. Cist. & Trappist habits are quite similar - white versions of the original Benedictine black, with the Trappists adding a black piece, too; the Trappists outnumber the O.Cists. - at least in this country... I don't know how big the Order of Cistercians is worldwide or even in Europe.

To return to VeniteAdoremus' original naughty but fun implication - that there may be something wrong with Benedictines if they need so much reforming: I suppose it's true, but given the sheer number of monasteries there used to be, and the very great length of time they've been monking it up (and nunning it up, too), it's not to be wondered at that they've needed some reforms - every six or seven hundred years isn't too bad a record. The miracle - and I mean that literally - in my humble opinion, is that they accomplished the needed reforms.

The test on the above material will be given during next Friday's class - please bring your own #2 pencils.

Edited August 1, 2009 by Luigi

[Luigi]

"Both OCAO and OCSO make very good beer."

The (various) Trappists also make coagulated milk, fruitcake, creamed honey, candy, more fruitcake, more candy, mushrooms, still more candy, bread, jelly, and the Lord only knows what all else (implication: omniscience necessary to keep up with all of it). And all of it's good.

[VeniteAdoremus]

*smiles and nods*

Luigi, you are so cool.

I have decided you should move to England and assist my novice mistress in classes. (Bring Trappist candy.)