Luthien Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote name='Varg' post='1936663' date='Jul 31 2009, 03:08 PM']No, because your brain is still functioning.[/quote] [quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1936673' date='Jul 31 2009, 03:19 PM']All I can say to that is... at the Apocalypse, we won't be worried about power. Wind and solar are used more extensively than you might realize and power can be stored and used at times when they aren't able to generate as much. There are many other ways we can improve our energy efficiency too, with an upgraded grid, changes in architecture and construction, incentives to get homeowners and landlords to make improvements.[/quote] The method isn't perfect, but the concept is definitely not a total wash. It's an affordability thing these days more than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StColette Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1936673' date='Jul 31 2009, 01:19 PM']Wind and solar are used more extensively than you might realize and power can be stored and used at times when they aren't able to generate as much. There are many other ways we can improve our energy efficiency too, with an upgraded grid, changes in architecture and construction, incentives to get homeowners and landlords to make improvements.[/quote] Some homes produce so much extra power that the electric companys actually buy it from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeniteAdoremus Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote name='StColette' post='1936712' date='Jul 31 2009, 09:20 PM']Some homes produce so much extra power that the electric companys actually buy it from them.[/quote] My mum has this. She gets a lot of sun on the roof, living in the south of France and all that. When the equipment to sell back wasn't installed yet they drained the excess heat into the swimming pool. A 45C swimming pool is NOT nice in summer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffpugh Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1936740' date='Jul 31 2009, 03:04 PM'] My mum has this. She gets a lot of sun on the roof, living in the south of France and all that. When the equipment to sell back wasn't installed yet they drained the excess heat into the swimming pool. A 45C swimming pool is NOT nice in summer![/quote] You kidding me? Sounds great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luthien Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Man, PM put a quote from another thread I was posting in into this thread...it didnt show up in the other thread...what gives???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeniteAdoremus Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1936782' date='Jul 31 2009, 10:59 PM']You kidding me? Sounds great![/quote] You're welcome to come and try (although the music in this parish is HORRID BEYOND BELIEF, and that with only voice and organ, so don't stay over Sunday). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1936675' date='Jul 31 2009, 02:21 PM']In terms of energy, I'm of the opinion that it's based far more on economics than on research and development. When alternative forms make sense money wise, they'll be developed and/or used. We use fossil fuels because at the end of the day, they're most efficient.[/quote] What isn't reflected, however, is the environmental cost, and that is very significant. I would say that destroying a mountain range along with communities and families is a significant cost, but you won't see it on your power bill. Just like the unborn, they live unseen because they're in West Virginia and we don't have to bother ourselves with them. But doesn't a catholic pro-life ethic regard [i]all[/i] life as deserving of the same dignity? And if renewable energy sources will restore communities, create good jobs, and save the environment, is the government wrong to assist private companies in pushing the technology towards profitability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeniteAdoremus Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 [quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1939649' date='Aug 3 2009, 05:39 PM']What isn't reflected, however, is the environmental cost, and that is very significant. I would say that destroying a mountain range along with communities and families is a significant cost, but you won't see it on your power bill. Just like the unborn, they live unseen because they're in West Virginia and we don't have to bother ourselves with them. But doesn't a catholic pro-life ethic regard [i]all[/i] life as deserving of the same dignity? And if renewable energy sources will restore communities, create good jobs, and save the environment, is the government wrong to assist private companies in pushing the technology towards profitability?[/quote] If we'd come up with a way to account for environmental costs within the normal economic system this entire discussion would be moot. And this isn't just long-hair-leather-sandals talk: environmental quality has a price tag as much as everything else does (nobody likes to live in the middle of a strip mine or next to a poisoned river, so land prices fall, to name but the most obvious of many factors). IMO it was a lack of foresight during the industrial revolution. If we'd set up a system of [i]directly[/i] accounting for the costs, we would now think it the most normal thing in the world. Not saying that such a system would be easy to form, just that its non-existence is a total and illogical oversight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 [quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1939649' date='Aug 3 2009, 09:39 AM']What isn't reflected, however, is the environmental cost, and that is very significant. I would say that destroying a mountain range along with communities and families is a significant cost, but you won't see it on your power bill. And if renewable energy sources will restore communities, create good jobs, and save the environment, is the government wrong to assist private companies in pushing the technology towards profitability?[/quote] That's not my point though. What I'm saying is that when the financial value is there, alternative energy sources will be developed and used regardless of government money. That's just pure free market economics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1939794' date='Aug 3 2009, 02:43 PM']That's not my point though. What I'm saying is that when the financial value is there, alternative energy sources will be developed and used regardless of government money. That's just pure free market economics.[/quote] We do not live in a free market. Nor does a free market reward the most rational option necessairly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Who is Church Norris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1939811' date='Aug 3 2009, 02:54 PM']We do not live in a free market. Nor does a free market reward the most rational option necessairly.[/quote] Our market is free enough that this will hold true. As soon as alternative energies are economical to develop and use, they will be developed and used. Until then, fossil fuels are still the most viable option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1939816' date='Aug 3 2009, 02:57 PM']Our market is free enough that this will hold true. As soon as alternative energies are economical to develop and use, they will be developed and used. Until then, fossil fuels are still the most viable option.[/quote] Unless, as has happened, car and energy companies use their vast wealth to buy up cheep, efficient electric public transportation systems in and then destroys them. People act like the free market is some abstration which actually has causal powers. I don't understand this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1939820' date='Aug 3 2009, 03:00 PM']Unless, as has happened, car and energy companies use their vast wealth to buy up cheep, efficient electric public transportation systems in and then destroys them.[/quote] I don't understand what you're saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' post='1939822' date='Aug 3 2009, 04:04 PM']I don't understand what you're saying.[/quote] There have been instances where energy and car companies have used their wealth to purchase cheep, efficient, and environmentally friendly forms of transportation. They have then ceased to develop these technologies or, in the case of some mass transit systems, dismantled them (as they now own them). The "free market", whatever that really is, does not choose the most economically efficient option if it is not available. Which does happen. Most people are not deeply invested in such matters (normally). Energy and Car companies, however, are. They, at least the energy companies, are exorbitantly wealthy and have both the motive and resources to identify potential future competitors and use their resources to prevent such potential competitors from being developed or used on a large scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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