Hassan Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 [quote name='Selah' post='1935751' date='Jul 30 2009, 03:51 PM']Okay...where is this proof of montheism and the supernatural origins of Catholicism?[/quote] Belief that God can be proven through the means of natural reason is an article of faith I think. Selah if you are having doubts and want to hold onto your faith you should read this interesting book on the ontological argument I found not to long ago. If you are interested let me know and I'll hunt down the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 [quote name='Selah' post='1935751' date='Jul 30 2009, 02:51 PM']Okay...where is this proof of montheism and the supernatural origins of Catholicism?[/quote] If you wanted me to type out my thoughts on the matter, my post would probably be long and incoherent to anyone but me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1935762' date='Jul 30 2009, 03:00 PM']If you wanted me to type out my thoughts on the matter, my post would probably be long and incoherent to anyone but me.[/quote] I'd be interested we can start a new thread on it if Selah doesn't want it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) [quote]If you wanted me to type out my thoughts on the matter, my post would probably be long and incoherent to anyone but me.[/quote] If you wish to, you may I promise I'll understand [quote]Selah if you are having doubts and want to hold onto your faith you should read this interesting book on the ontological argument I found not to long ago. If you are interested let me know and I'll hunt down the title.[/quote] Thanks! Edited July 30, 2009 by Selah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Yes Res please do. I'm getting confused talking about basically the same subject with you in two different places (here and FB) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Selah and Resurrexi The book is Rethinking the ontological argument : a neoclassical theistic response By Daniel A. Dombrowski I'm sure Resurrexi is a big fan of his Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I didn't choose Catholicism, I was raised in it. I suppose if I had been raised as a Baptist, I would have stayed there, I don't know. I believe I am in the "right" religion, but I guess I won't know for sure until I die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 [quote name='Hassan' post='1935768' date='Jul 30 2009, 03:06 PM']Yes Res please do. I'm getting confused talking about basically the same subject with you in two different places (here and FB)[/quote] It will probably take a little while to get my thoughts together. I might post something in the next few days. [quote name='CatherineM' post='1935772' date='Jul 30 2009, 03:12 PM']I didn't choose Catholicism, I was raised in it. I suppose if I had been raised as a Baptist, I would have stayed there, I don't know.[/quote] Interesting. I would say that I definitely chose Catholicism. It is true that I was (am) raised Catholic, but one can choose a religion even if one was raised in it. I would like to think that I would be Catholic now even if I had been raised Buddhist or neo-pagan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bus Station Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 It's impossible to "know." In the words of George Michael: You gotta have faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassan Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1935787' date='Jul 30 2009, 04:18 PM']It will probably take a little while to get my thoughts together. I might post something in the next few days. Interesting. I would say that I definitely chose Catholicism. It is true that I was (am) raised Catholic, but one can choose a religion even if one was raised in it. I would like to think that I would be Catholic now even if I had been raised Buddhist or neo-pagan.[/quote] You should read "Reason and the Radical Crisis of Faith: by Shabbir Akhtar. It's an argument for the reestablishment of a Christian natural theology. Although it's hard to find. He does a good job attacking existentialism and more liberal variants of reformulating Christian faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luigi Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Revelation is enough to convince me, but it doesn't convince everyone (nothing will). I find the historical argument very persuasive, too - Catholicism has been practiced by more people in more countries over a longer period of time than any other religion. Practice in and of itself would not provide enough weight - the Greeks & Romans practiced their religions for a long time even though it is not "the right one." The stronger argument (still historical) is that a broad diversity of people (women, men, priests, nuns, laity, theologians, mystics) in all those countries & cultures and over all that time have pondered and refined the truths of the faith through theology and a wide variety of lived experience (hermits, small religious communities, huge religious communities, lay associations, married life, work, prayer, combinations of work & prayer, country & city life, wealthy & poor, in peace and in revolution). The central truths have been substantiated & verified by that broad spectrum of people in a broad spectrum of circumstances, and the core truths have remained the same even when the surface practices have differed. Again, that's not going to convince everyone, but it does reassure me that Catholicism knows, worships, and proclaims God more accurately than other religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 For me it started with the little things: There is a God. God loves me infinitely. God wants the best for me and my life. I accepted Jesus because I saw how Scripture spoke to me, how prayers were answered, and how the Spirit led me to make certain decisions. I figured if the Holy Spirit could do that, then He could certainly allow a virgin girl to bear a child...and that child wouldn't be ordinary, but God Himself. So, Jesus = God. And then my belief in Catholicism came from the Magisterium. We all can't have our own interpretations of Scripture...someone would have to be wrong. We have to "hold fast to the traditions that are given to [us]." How else do we do that but in an unbroken line of apostolic faith? That apostolic lineage is in Scripture, Matthew 16:18. It was obvious to me that Jesus gave the authority to one man, Peter. Everything else grew from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Selah' post='1935710' date='Jul 30 2009, 03:12 PM']Bible? Church teaching? History? Personal experience?[/quote] A combination of those things. As a bonus, we also drink, gamble, and aren't afraid to have churches like this: [img]http://eternallycool.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/bone-church-2.jpg[/img] [img]http://eternallycool.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/bone-church-3.jpg[/img] [img]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn165/dragonflymind/sedlec010.jpg[/img] dress like this: [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/NazarenosSanEsteban.jpeg[/img] do paintings like this: [img]http://www.santosdepr.org/Santosimages/Santosindex/Universoimages/Manopoderosa/mano3.jpg[/img] or have saints like this: [img]http://saints.sqpn.com/wp-content/gallery/saint-denis-of-paris/saint-denis-of-paris-01.jpg[/img] Edited July 31, 2009 by Ash Wednesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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