Resurrexi Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 [quote name='Skinzo' post='1940190' date='Aug 3 2009, 10:13 PM']At this writing it seems unlikely that anyone in the SSPX will be able to remain as a bishop or priest if they have the views of Williamson.[/quote] "Tu es sacerdos in aeternum secundum ordinem Melchisedech" (Ps. 109:4) It is impossible for one no longer to be a priest or a bishop since "ordination imprints an indelible sacramental character" ([i]Catechism of the Catholic Church[/i], no. 1597). "Sacred ordination once validly received never becomes invalid" (CIC, can. 290). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1940255' date='Aug 3 2009, 11:30 PM']"Tu es sacerdos in aeternum secundum ordinem Melchisedech" (Ps. 109:4) It is impossible for one no longer to be a priest or a bishop since "ordination imprints an indelible sacramental character" ([i]Catechism of the Catholic Church[/i], no. 1597). "Sacred ordination once validly received never becomes invalid" (CIC, can. 290).[/quote] True. Though I don't think he's arguing that Williamson will have his ordination/consecration revoked. Only that he won't be permitted to perform any duties delegated to the position and I'm pretty sure a pope has the authority to do this much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinzo Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 [quote name='goldenchild17' post='1940272' date='Aug 4 2009, 02:00 AM']True. Though I don't think he's arguing that Williamson will have his ordination/consecration revoked. Only that he won't be permitted to perform any duties delegated to the position and I'm pretty sure a pope has the authority to do this much.[/quote] Quite right. But it is clear the SSPX is not going to tolerate anyone taking the position of holocaust denial as a MEMBER of the society. Since Abrahamowicz was expelled from the SSPX, Williamson could be too. In any event, ALL priests and bishops of the SSPX remain under suspension from all ministerial activities, so this is a moot point. S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeniteAdoremus Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I understand that the SSPX bishops (or at least Bishop Fellay) will probably be allowed to keep working as Bishops, for social/political reasons (let's call it "charity"). But when you think about it it's a bit strange, since it's their ordination that was such a huge step towards this situation (from the Roman POV). It would be logical if the parts of the SSPX joining to the Church would be placed under the guidance of other bishops. It's probably not going to happen, but it would be logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 [quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1940311' date='Aug 4 2009, 06:00 AM']It would be logical if the parts of the SSPX joining to the Church would be placed under the guidance of other bishops. It's probably not going to happen, but it would be logical.[/quote] No, that would not be logical at all since many bishops are inimical towards the SSPX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 [quote name='goldenchild17' post='1940272' date='Aug 4 2009, 12:00 AM']True. Though I don't think he's arguing that Williamson will have his ordination/consecration revoked. Only that he won't be permitted to perform any duties delegated to the position and I'm pretty sure a pope has the authority to do this much.[/quote] I realize that he was probably referring to removal from the clerical state, but the way he stated it was incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinzo Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1940363' date='Aug 4 2009, 01:03 PM']I realize that he was probably referring to removal from the clerical state, but the way he stated it was incorrect.[/quote] I wasn't referring to removal from the clerical state but expulsion from the SSPX. I think it's pretty clear. Abrahamowicz was EXPELLED, Williamson could be too. Both would still be a priest and a bishop. S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 [quote name='Skinzo' post='1940373' date='Aug 4 2009, 11:14 AM']I wasn't referring to removal from the clerical state but expulsion from the SSPX. I think it's pretty clear. Abrahamowicz was EXPELLED, Williamson could be too. Both would still be a priest and a bishop. S.[/quote] Seeing that Bishop Williamson is a bishop and was one of the leaders of the SSPX up to the recent ordeal, it is unlikely that he will be expelled from the Society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinzo Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1940381' date='Aug 4 2009, 01:24 PM']Seeing that Bishop Williamson is a bishop and was one of the leaders of the SSPX up to the recent ordeal, it is unlikely that he will be expelled from the Society.[/quote] Kid, why don't you do some research before posting?? Here's an excerpt from Bishop Fellay's interview with Der Spiegel. Note the following well: SPIEGEL: Will he (Williamson) return to his full duties? Fellay: That is impossible under the current circumstances. He has damaged us and hurt our reputation. We have very clearly distanced ourselves. He was not ordained as a bishop for his own personal purpose but for the common good of the church, to spread the revealed truth. SPIEGEL: So why don't you exclude Williamson from the society? Fellay: [b]That will happen if he denies the Holocaust again.[/b] It is probably better for everyone if he stays quiet and stays in a corner somewhere. I want him to disappear from the public eye for a good while. Given his unwillingness to satisfy Vatican demands for several months now, it seems quite likely he will not have any role whatsoever in the SSPX. Lately, he has refused to go to Auschwitz, nor has he made any effort to retract his views. Fellay gave him a book on the Holocaust several months ago. It would seem the bishop is not impressed, or a very slow reader. See: [url="http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,610700,00.html"]http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/...,610700,00.html[/url] S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 [quote name='Skinzo' post='1940434' date='Aug 4 2009, 12:34 PM']Kid, why don't you do some research before posting?? Here's an excerpt from Bishop Fellay's interview with Der Spiegel. Note the following well: SPIEGEL: Will he (Williamson) return to his full duties? Fellay: That is impossible under the current circumstances. He has damaged us and hurt our reputation. We have very clearly distanced ourselves. He was not ordained as a bishop for his own personal purpose but for the common good of the church, to spread the revealed truth. SPIEGEL: So why don't you exclude Williamson from the society? Fellay: [b]That will happen if he denies the Holocaust again.[/b] It is probably better for everyone if he stays quiet and stays in a corner somewhere. I want him to disappear from the public eye for a good while. Given his unwillingness to satisfy Vatican demands for several months now, it seems quite likely he will not have any role whatsoever in the SSPX. Lately, he has refused to go to Auschwitz, nor has he made any effort to retract his views. Fellay gave him a book on the Holocaust several months ago. It would seem the bishop is not impressed, or a very slow reader. See: [url="http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,610700,00.html"]http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/...,610700,00.html[/url] S.[/quote] Whether you believe it or not, I always keep up to date with news about the SSPX. I have indeed read that interview before. I don't think that Bishop Williamson will deny the holocaust again since he knows what the consequences would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 [quote name='Skinzo' post='1940310' date='Aug 4 2009, 05:52 AM']Quite right. But it is clear the SSPX is not going to tolerate anyone taking the position of holocaust denial as a MEMBER of the society. Since Abrahamowicz was expelled from the SSPX, Williamson could be too. In any event, ALL priests and bishops of the SSPX remain under suspension from all ministerial activities, so this is a moot point. S.[/quote] Maybe they will maybe they won't. That is an option that they have. We shall see what happens I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinzo Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 [quote name='goldenchild17' post='1940700' date='Aug 4 2009, 10:57 PM']Maybe they will maybe they won't. That is an option that they have. We shall see what happens I think.[/quote] Bishop Fellay has made it clear that it is a settled question. He will throw out anyone who takes that position. No maybe. S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 [quote name='Skinzo' post='1940704' date='Aug 4 2009, 09:04 PM']Bishop Fellay has made it clear that it is a settled question. He will throw out anyone who takes that position. No maybe. S.[/quote] How are you to know that he will follow though with what he said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 [quote name='Skinzo' post='1940704' date='Aug 4 2009, 09:04 PM']Bishop Fellay has made it clear that it is a settled question. He will throw out anyone who takes that position. No maybe. S.[/quote] I stand by what I said we'll see if he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinzo Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 [quote name='Resurrexi' post='1940709' date='Aug 4 2009, 11:12 PM']How are you to know that he will follow though with what he said?[/quote] Why would you doubt him? S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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