Government

[dairygirl4u2c]

questions, comments, words of wisdom?


[quote]This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock, powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watch this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined safe by the Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US Congress, and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door, I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

After work, I drive my NHTSA car back home on DOT roads, to a house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and Fire Marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log on to the internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post on FreeRepublic.com and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can't do anything right.[/quote]

[Hassan]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1948460' date='Aug 14 2009, 12:08 AM']questions, comments, words of wisdom?[/quote]



Pure Stalinism

[txdinghysailor]

anarchy ftw

[Winchester]

It's based on a straw man.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='txdinghysailor' post='1950112' date='Aug 15 2009, 08:07 PM']anarchy ftw[/quote]

Anarchy

Catholic monarchy

[txdinghysailor]

[quote name='Resurrexi' post='1950187' date='Aug 15 2009, 11:49 PM']Anarchy

Catholic monarchy [/quote]

Catholic monarchy: *insert smiley for impossible and improbable"

Anarchy

[dairygirl4u2c]

the points are not a straw man. they're merely an analogy to make a point.
the truth is that it's an empiracal and uncertain matter as to whther the government can properly do health care properly.
so you can point to times government does good, or point to times it does bad.

i know NASA has a tremendous success rate. yet, you hear people knee jerk point to a couple times there were a crash out of more than a hundred etc. they get into this "private sector can do better any and all times", never min that the private sector doesn't do it, hasn't shown itself able, and effectively may not be capable of doing it (at least tehre's not sufficient will), among other things.

point being, one shouldn't jump so quickly to thinking the government is good or bad at someting.

[Winchester]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1950533' date='Aug 16 2009, 02:55 PM']the points are not a straw man. they're merely an analogy to make a point.
the truth is that it's an empiracal and uncertain matter as to whther the government can properly do health care properly.
so you can point to times government does good, or point to times it does bad.

i know NASA has a tremendous success rate. yet, you hear people knee jerk point to a couple times there were a crash out of more than a hundred etc. they get into this "private sector can do better any and all times", never min that the private sector doesn't do it, hasn't shown itself able, and effectively may not be capable of doing it (at least tehre's not sufficient will), among other things.

point being, one shouldn't jump so quickly to thinking the government is good or bad at someting.[/quote]
It's a straw man argument. Reread it.

[Winchester]

[quote name='txdinghysailor' post='1950196' date='Aug 15 2009, 11:10 PM']Catholic monarchy: *insert smiley for impossible and improbable"

Anarchy [/quote]
Anarchy lasts until someone takes control. Anarchy impossible to maintain. In fact, it never exists. What most people call anarchy is really a form of tribalism.

[dairygirl4u2c]

Guv-ment n-vulve-ment?

[MarkKurallSchuenemann]

Constitutional republics bring something that communistic governments never will - communism is based upon the idea that the government knows better than the people, and therefore has more rights than the people have, and the people are there as a resource that the government provides for and uses. I am not, and never will be anybody but God's resource! I am no man's resource.

Constitutional republics, on the other hand, say that the government is made up of the people for the people. It is based upon that nobody - whether they are in government or not - has any greater right than any other citizen of that nation. You are your own resource, go out, discover your destiny, enjoy life! In other words, the government is saying I am a resource for myself only, and I can choose to do anything I choose with the resources I work for - within the laws of our nations.

Obama Care didn't respect the spirit of constitutional republics, because it demanded of the citizens who want to use it to be on only certain health insurance companies that it approved. In other words, you were told, for your own good, that you had to do something that you normally might not choose to do - and that is communism, pure and simple!

Apparently, President Obama thinks he can demand that people can only have health insurance polices with certain companies in order to receive free health care, or some such thing. Could I demand, as a citizen of any nation, that they only way you can get your health care is just through things that I must approve of. If I could not do that, and most people would think such a person is nuts for thinking they can demand people to do anything, why do we give President Obama the right to say and do that by saying, well he's the president, he has the power to make those decisions. NO HE DOES NOT! If its nuts for me to demand how you get health care, it's also nuts for him to demand how you get health care!

We have laws, and a republic to ensure we have freedom to choose to do anything we want to do. The moment the government says, in order to get this, you must accept that - you are on a dangerous slope.

Edited January 11, 2011 by MarkKurallSchuenemann

[liseski]

I don't live in a republic.
I live in a parliamentary democracy.
My socialised healthcare works fine.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294720063' post='2198855']
Could I demand, as a citizen of any nation, that they only way you can get your health care is just through things that I must approve of. If I could not do that, and most people would think such a person is nuts for thinking they can demand people to do anything,
[/quote]

In other words, 90% of what the State does is done by insane people.

~Sternhauser

[MarkKurallSchuenemann]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1294781776' post='2199084']
In other words, 90% of what the State does is done by insane people.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]

Do you think some of the things they are doing right now seem sane?

I think the parliaments of the world are filled with fearful little lunatics what would jump if their shadow didn't pass through a full body scanner!

[MarkKurallSchuenemann]

[quote name='liseski' timestamp='1294779280' post='2199072']
I don't live in a republic.
I live in a parliamentary democracy.
My socialised healthcare works fine.
[/quote]

I live in Canada, and I don't like the health care system here.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='MarkKurallSchuenemann' timestamp='1294810338' post='2199269']
I live in Canada, and I don't like the health care system here.
[/quote]

our anecdotal experience is vastly different. I live in Canada, and thanks to my dad's self employment and my mum and dad's health issues, we would have been bankrupted many times over in the last couple years and living in the street.

Our slow socialized medicine managed to diagnose my dad with esophageal cancer, scan him several times, get him fast tracked to the relevant medical specialists and get him in an OR with a fantastic surgeon, who performed a Gastrectomy(removing the entire stomach) with so far great success(it was only a few days ago). and it did all that in less than a month.

also has had numerous ambulances come out to our place when my dad faints or mums heart goes wonky, including getting a helicopter to our semi remote island and airflifting mum out to a hospital 30 odd miles away when she had a heart attack scare.

also treated me well when my body doesnt keep its end of the bargain, quick surgery, drop in doctor visits, bones x rayed, etc.

All in all, Im quite pleased with it. I wasnt paying into it the last two years, not nearly enough income, but i will be now, and that is fine with me.


on another note, just got a call from mum, dad is recovering well, and just stood up and walked around today, cracking jokes!

[Mr.Cat]

Most Canadians I encounter are satisfied or proud of their health care system. Most Canadians seem to fear American medicine. I heard an argument between a Canadian and an American, the American arguing that the Canadians would love to have our health care system if they could, which the Canadian quickly shot back that he could buy medical insurance and go to a doctor in the United States... he just doesn't want to, his medical system he finds more effective, efficient, and focused on his well-being.

Dealing with American medicine with good medical insurance, which I do have, its irritating and complicated. Advocates of this version of free market medicine argue that it encourages doctors to be more competent and offer better quality of treatment. But in my opinion, it just makes doctors incompetent and lazy, because if you don't like the service your doctor gives go find another one.

Doctors who really are good at what they do are so expensive that between my good insurance and co-payment, I'm not going to get to see them! Which curiously, just because they charge more doesn't make them better... medical costs in the United States are outrageous.

Also dealing with medicine for my friends and family, who don't have insurance but do have jobs, it's almost impossible to find anyone who will treat them other than the SMALL socialized hospital district. We Americans, we must sure love death, because we work so hard to keep simple treatments from those in need.

Edited January 12, 2011 by Mr.CatholicCat

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' timestamp='1294815879' post='2199298']
Most Canadians I encounter are satisfied or proud of their health care system. Most Canadians seem to fear American medicine. I heard an argument between a Canadian and an American, the American arguing that the Canadians would love to have our health care system if they could, which the Canadian quickly shot back that he could buy medical insurance and go to a doctor in the United States... he just doesn't want to, his medical system he finds more effective, efficient, and focused on his well-being.

Dealing with American medicine with good medical insurance, which I do have, its irritating and complicated. Advocates of this version of free market medicine argue that it encourages doctors to be more competent and offer better quality of treatment. But in my opinion, it just makes doctors incompetent and lazy, because if you don't like the service your doctor gives go find another one.

Doctors who really are good at what they do are so expensive that between my good insurance and co-payment, I'm not going to get to see them! Which curiously, just because they charge more doesn't make them better... medical costs in the United States are outrageous.

Also dealing with medicine for my friends and family, who don't have insurance but do have jobs, it's almost impossible to find anyone who will treat them other than the SMALL socialized hospital district. We Americans, we must sure love death, because we work so hard to keep simple treatments from those in need.
[/quote]
In the US if you are very poor or very rich you can get relatively good treatment, but it you are middle-class you are screwed.
For example, my cousin with a broken foot is advised to get PT after 6 weeks in a cast. However her insurance will not cover it and the PT is $160 a session for 3x a week, so needless to say she won't be going. And she has relatively good insurance....

[Mr.Cat]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1294817419' post='2199301']but it you are middle-class you are screwed.[/quote]I wish someone explained that to me sooner...

[MarkKurallSchuenemann]

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' timestamp='1294815879' post='2199298']
Most Canadians I encounter are satisfied or proud of their health care system. Most Canadians seem to fear American medicine. I heard an argument between a Canadian and an American, the American arguing that the Canadians would love to have our health care system if they could, which the Canadian quickly shot back that he could buy medical insurance and go to a doctor in the United States... he just doesn't want to, his medical system he finds more effective, efficient, and focused on his well-being.

Dealing with American medicine with good medical insurance, which I do have, its irritating and complicated. Advocates of this version of free market medicine argue that it encourages doctors to be more competent and offer better quality of treatment. But in my opinion, it just makes doctors incompetent and lazy, because if you don't like the service your doctor gives go find another one.

Doctors who really are good at what they do are so expensive that between my good insurance and co-payment, I'm not going to get to see them! Which curiously, just because they charge more doesn't make them better... medical costs in the United States are outrageous.

Also dealing with medicine for my friends and family, who don't have insurance but do have jobs, it's almost impossible to find anyone who will treat them other than the SMALL socialized hospital district. We Americans, we must sure love death, because we work so hard to keep simple treatments from those in need.
[/quote]

I would prefer a two-tier healthcare system, and one that has some government regulation.

Like, would it be so bad to have paid cancer treatement hospitals, but by law, all profits are turned into research grants to come up with better cancer treatments? How about heart attack and stroke hositials.

Sure, you can have the public healthcare system right beside it, but why is it illegal in Canada to create paid hospitals, if we regulate them for speciality treatments?

I don't think it is fair, and I actually think it is unconstitutional that the government decides how I get healthcare, and I have no choice in the matter.