The Purpose Of Hell

[Vincent Vega]

A related thought from St.Teresa of Avila:
"At death the soul instinctively knows where to go - to heaven or to hell. Those souls that go to hell go because it is, in the end, the less painful choice. Those souls that die outside of a state of grace know that it is far more painful with their ...sin to be in God's immediate presence, than to depart from God. In this way God remains ever merciful, to allow those souls who choose against Him, to depart from Him."

[Apotheoun]

God is omnipresent, which means that He is present to the saints and the damned alike.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='18 August 2009 - 03:23 PM' timestamp='1250623404' post='1952002']
God is omnipresent, which means that He is present to the saints and the damned alike.
[/quote]


Then what is hell if not the absence of God?

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Hassan' date='18 August 2009 - 03:56 PM' timestamp='1250625406' post='1952019']
Then what is hell if not the absence of God?
[/quote]
This.

[Hassan]

I believe in some trends of eastern/mystical Christianity heaven and hell are seen as one. For the saved the presence of God is paradise, for the wicked it's hell.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='18 August 2009 - 03:13 PM' timestamp='1250622782' post='1951994']
It depends on what one means when using the word "create."

God is not the cause of hell; rather, the damned are the cause of their own suffering.
[/quote]


What does that mean?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' date='18 August 2009 - 01:56 PM' timestamp='1250625406' post='1952019']
Then what is hell if not the absence of God?
[/quote]
Hell is the presence of God experienced by one who has rejected Him by his own choice.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' date='18 August 2009 - 02:32 PM' timestamp='1250627521' post='1952047']
What does that mean?
[/quote]
I thought that the meaning was clear, i.e., the word "create" is polyvalent, and so it can be used in a number of ways.

[jeffpugh]

Great, so is there a difference in understanding Hell in the East and West? Can it be an "and" instead of an "or" concerning both accounts?


I like this thread, though. Ironically.

[Hassan]

I mean what does this mean


[i]God is not the cause of hell; rather, the damned are the cause of their own suffering.[/i]

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='18 August 2009 - 05:03 PM' timestamp='1250629398' post='1952068']
Hell is the presence of God experienced by one who has rejected Him by his own choice.
[/quote]
Interesting.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' date='18 August 2009 - 03:08 PM' timestamp='1250629732' post='1952077']
I mean what does this mean


[i]God is not the cause of hell; rather, the damned are the cause of their own suffering.[/i]
[/quote]
Christ gives ever-being to all mankind through His incarnation and paschal mystery, but whether that ever-being is blissful or painful is determined by the free choices of each person in response to the grace of God.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='18 August 2009 - 06:15 PM' timestamp='1250633729' post='1952156']
Christ gives ever-being to all mankind through His incarnation and paschal mystery, but whether that ever-being is blissful or painful is determined by the free choices of each person in response to the grace of God.
[/quote]


Is there the possibility of redemption for the damned after death?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' date='18 August 2009 - 04:36 PM' timestamp='1250634977' post='1952182']
Is there the possibility of redemption for the damned after death?
[/quote]
No, hell is a self-chosen eternal state of existence.

[Akalyte]

To destroy the unrepentant enemies of God for all eternity.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='18 August 2009 - 06:43 PM' timestamp='1250635416' post='1952193']
No, hell is a self-chosen eternal state of existence.
[/quote]


How is it self chosen if they are forced to remain?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' date='18 August 2009 - 06:19 PM' timestamp='1250641197' post='1952279']
How is it self chosen if they are forced to remain?
[/quote]
A person, by the way that he chooses to live his life, determines his final end, and so if he recapitulates the virtues of Christ in his own life he will experience the divine fire as eternal bliss, but if he chooses to live in a reprobate manner he will experience God's presence as unending horrible pain.

The choice is left in the hands of each person, for God has given everyone free will.

[Hassan]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='18 August 2009 - 08:26 PM' timestamp='1250641593' post='1952286']
A person, by the way that he chooses to live his life, determines his final end, and so if he recapitulates the virtues of Christ in his own life he will experience the divine fire as eternal bliss, but if he chooses to live in a reprobate manner he will experience God's presence as unending horrible pain.

The choice is left in the hands of each person, for God has given everyone free will.
[/quote]


Then individual's choice extends only so far as their willingness to submit to God's demands.


What is the purpose of God forcing his unsaved creation to exist in his presence, in state of unending horrible pain and without the possibility of redemption?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Hassan' date='18 August 2009 - 07:02 PM' timestamp='1250643759' post='1952300']
Then individual's choice extends only so far as their willingness to submit to God's demands.


What is the purpose of God forcing his unsaved creation to exist in his presence, in state of unending horrible pain and without the possibility of redemption?
[/quote]
Virtue is a capacity that is present within each man, but it must be individually actualized for it to have any meaning.

That said, hell has nothing to do with a failure to fulfill some sort of extraneous demands of God; instead, hell is the experience of God received by one who -- for whatever reason -- chose to live a profligate life, which is a way of being that retards the fulfillment of his real nature.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Apotheoun

[Selah]

[quote]No, hell is a self-chosen eternal state of existence. [/quote]

Why would anyone choose to go to hell? Furthermore, why is it eternal? Why can God not bring those souls back into the light?

[quote]To destroy the unrepentant enemies of God for all eternity. [/quote]

By enemies, do you mean people who commit evil, or people who simply believe differently?

Edited August 19, 2009 by Selah