75 Killed, 310 Injured In Baghdad Attacks

[cappie]

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Bombings rocked Baghdad killing 75 people and wounding 310 others, making Wednesday one of the deadliest days since the U.S. handed over security of the country to Iraqis.

n total there were six explosions within an hour, Iraq's Interior Ministry officials said.

In one attack, a truck bomb explosion partly damaged the Ministry of Foreign Affairs building. Another occurred outside the building of Ministry of Finance.

A roadside bomb exploded on Kifa Street in central Baghdad. Another bomb exploded in the Salhiya neighborhood and two more exploded in eastern Baghdad's Beirut Square, officials said.

In yet another attack, two mortars were fired into the Green Zone, the heavily fortified area in Baghdad that houses the U.S. Embassy and many government ministries.

The 4-square-mile area served as a refuge for Westerners for six years. The United States relinquished security control to the Iraqis earlier this year.

Iraqi Security Forces arrested two people in western Baghdad believed to be connected to the bombings, an official with the Iraqi army told CNN.

The two suspects were driving in a car rigged with explosives before they were arrested, the official said. The two suspects were believed to be al Qaeda in Iraq senior leaders, the official said.

The United States pulled back its combat troops from Iraqi cities and towns on June 30, leaving security responsibilities to the Iraqis and remaining only in a training and advisory capacity. The U.S. military continues to conduct combat operations in areas outside cities and towns.

[Selah]

I hate violence in the Middle East so much

[Didacus]

I don't think there is any possible way the US can pull out of Iraq and leave peace behing them.



selah, what does your avatar say?

[Didacus]

I don't think there is any possible way the US can pull out of Iraq and leave peace behing them.



selah, what does your avatar say?

[Selah]

[quote]I don't think there is any possible way the US can pull out of Iraq and leave peace behing them.[/quote]

There's no way. We need to stay there. These people need help.


[quote]selah, what does your avatar say? [/quote]

"Before you judge me, try hard to love me. Look within your heart then ask, have you seen my childhood?"

[CatherineM]

We could stay another 20 years, and there will still be a civil war the minute we leave.

[Didacus]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='19 August 2009 - 12:11 PM' timestamp='1250698288' post='1952630']
We could stay another 20 years, and there will still be a civil war the minute we leave.
[/quote]

The best choice was not to be there in the first place. Now the US will be held responsible for any civil war that insues from here on end, even though they are not the subject of the sectarian violence.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Didacus' date='19 August 2009 - 12:50 PM' timestamp='1250700629' post='1952661']
The best choice was not to be there in the first place. Now the US will be held responsible for any civil war that insues from here on end, even though they are not the subject of the sectarian violence.
[/quote]
Yes, it was a land peace and milk and honey before we arrived. No one died. No one got sick. Two cars in every garage.

[CatherineM]

It wasn't a land of peace before we got there, but there wasn't extreme chaos either. I can't imagine Saddam being any worse than the radical/military/fanatic government they will eventually end up with after they tear themselves apart for a few years.

[Didacus]

[quote name='kamiller42' date='19 August 2009 - 04:05 PM' timestamp='1250712346' post='1952764']
Yes, it was a land peace and milk and honey before we arrived. No one died. No one got sick. Two cars in every garage.
[/quote]

I have two cars! (well, the little family does)

But I don't have a garage.

[Hassan]

[quote name='kamiller42' date='19 August 2009 - 04:05 PM' timestamp='1250712346' post='1952764']
Yes, it was a land peace and milk and honey before we arrived. No one died. No one got sick. Two cars in every garage.
[/quote]

How much tonnage of straw is actually used to construct a model of this size?

[Hassan]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='19 August 2009 - 04:13 PM' timestamp='1250712805' post='1952771']
It wasn't a land of peace before we got there, but there wasn't extreme chaos either. I can't imagine Saddam being any worse than the radical/military/fanatic government they will eventually end up with after they tear themselves apart for a few years.
[/quote]


Most of the ethnic cleansing has already been done. Perhaps that will mitigate the eventual violence.

[eagle_eye222001]

Just a huge mess.

[Didacus]

The larger risk for Iraq is that Iran and Saudi Arabia wage a covered ethnic war for control of the area. The factions killing one another in Iraq are diametrically alligned with these two other countries and for their own safety, Iran and Saudi Arabia have vested interest in having their own ethnic similars in control of the country.

In short, the ethnic conflicts can in time span out into surrounding regions and excalate.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='CatherineM' date='19 August 2009 - 04:13 PM' timestamp='1250712805' post='1952771']
It wasn't a land of peace before we got there, but there wasn't extreme chaos either. I can't imagine Saddam being any worse than the radical/military/fanatic government they will eventually end up with after they tear themselves apart for a few years.
[/quote]
It wasn't extreme chaos because the wood chippers and dungeons kept everyone in line.

You can't imagine Saddam any worse because the media refuses to do its job and do a thorough job reporting the humanitarian atrocities perpetrated by Saddam. I remember some guy made a video which collected many of the videos Saddam's henchmen took of people being tortured, slaughtered in the streets, wood chipped, etc. The media labeled him as over the top and trying to profiteer by making a "Faces of Death" type video. I thought he was doing the media's job.

Saddam was a WMD.

Edited August 20, 2009 by kamiller42

[kamiller42]

[quote name='Didacus' date='20 August 2009 - 09:28 AM' timestamp='1250774892' post='1953194']
In short, the ethnic conflicts can in time span out into surrounding regions and excalate.
[/quote]
Which is why early withdrawal via Operation Iraqi Surrender is dangerous. We can withdraw when its infant government matures.

Side issue: When are we going to pull out of Germany and Japan? Bring the troops home now!

[Didacus]

The US is far beyond any positive outcome of the Iraq occupation.

[Hassan]

[quote name='kamiller42' date='20 August 2009 - 12:25 PM' timestamp='1250785529' post='1953224']
It wasn't extreme chaos because the wood chippers and dungeons kept everyone in line.[/QUOTE]

Not to mention a strong standing army and police force, strong state institutions and stable bureaucracy.



[QUOTE]You can't imagine Saddam any worse because the media refuses to do its job and do a thorough job reporting the humanitarian atrocities perpetrated by Saddam.[/QUOTE]


What are you talking about? Is there any substantial population of the US that does not understand that Saddam Hussein was a monster? I was only in middle school at the time but I remember plenty of stories about Saddam's atrocities.

[QUOTE]I remember some guy made a video which collected many of the videos Saddam's henchmen took of people being tortured, slaughtered in the streets, wood chipped, etc. The media labeled him as over the top and trying to profiteer by making a "Faces of Death" type video. I thought he was doing the media's job.

Saddam was a WMD.
[/quote]

Which is why Reagan refused to have even the most tentative connection to him right? Saddam was a dictator. As far as dictator's and individuals who egregiously violated human rights Saddam wasn't the worse, not by far. We were able to maintain a relationship with him in the 80's when we felt it would serve our purposes in bashing up Iran. How do you think our friends in Egypt, China, Azerbaijan, pre revolutionary Iran et cetera keep their people in line?

Most of Saddam's worse atrocities occurred in the late 80's and early 90's. We let the Iraqi's suffer under Saddam plenty long. But suddenly in 2003 we had to sprint to invade Iraq without a viable plan for maintaining or reinstating some semblance of security? Was he still a monster in 2003? Of course. But the fact that he was not adverse to shoving a political opponent through a wood chipper doesn't mean that the average Iraqi didn't have a more stable and secure existence than in the post-Saddam civil war and ethnic cleansing.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Hassan

[Hassan]

[quote name='kamiller42' date='20 August 2009 - 12:29 PM' timestamp='1250785781' post='1953225']
Which is why early withdrawal via Operation Iraqi Surrender is dangerous. We can withdraw when its infant government matures.

Side issue: When are we going to pull out of Germany and Japan? Bring the troops home now!
[/quote]


I don't know about Germany, but I believe Okinawa is a serious strategic asset.

[Hassan]

[quote name='kamiller42' date='20 August 2009 - 12:25 PM' timestamp='1250785529' post='1953224']
You can't imagine Saddam any worse because the media refuses to do its job and do a thorough job reporting the humanitarian atrocities perpetrated by Saddam.

[/quote]


I'd wager that CatherineM's point isn't based on an ignorance of Saddam's wickedness, but an understanding of what a sick Muqtada al-Sadr and his thugs are.

What political faction do you ultimately see coming to power in Iraq after we leave? I don't know of any good possabilities.