Can Obama Deliver A Eulogy At A Catholic Funeral Mass?

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='havok579257' date='31 August 2009 - 09:22 PM' timestamp='1251768120' post='1959165']
so now there is acceptable amounts of scandel? is some scandel ok, but not others? by logic, should all people who could cause any scandel be refused a catholic funeral? again, that would mean that anyone unless they were 100% open about their life with everyone they knew could cause scandel. a couple who died without children could cause scandel because people might assume they used birth control. so just because the couple did not discuss all of their medical problems with everyone they knew, they should be refused a cahtolic funeral because they could cause scandel?
[/quote]
When one assumes, he runs the risk out of making a fool of himself. If someone assumes that a couple is using birth control when they are, in fact, not, shame on the person making the assumptions - he should probably learn to mind his business and spend the time in which he contemplates the goings on of his neighbors' bedrooms saying the rosary or reading the Bible or crocheting or doing something at least minimally constructive.
If a man publicly supports the mass murder of the unborn, does so in direct defiance of the Church, when all along he has been instructed not to support this evil, and then passes away, all the while having never changed his stances or even done so much as renounce his support, then yes, this is a great opportunity for scandal. There are many ignorant Catholics who may see this as an invitation to support abortion - see the other baptized Catholics in government: Biden; Pelosi; the other Kennedy(s); and so on. Many look to these and their support of the immoral as an affirmation of their will to support things like abortion. Unfortunately, they pay more attention to CNN than their Bishops, and fall for their webs of lies and half-baked rationalizations - however, I pity these bigwig Catholics when they have to talk their ways out of their lifelong support for the slaughter of innocents when they meet Jesus. That is a conversation I have NO inclination to have.

Edited September 1, 2009 by USAirwaysIHS

[Winchester]

My orginal version simply wasn't suitable. My warn level is high enough, already.

[Apotheoun]

Maybe you can barter some of your reputation points for a lowering of your warn level.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Winchester' date='31 August 2009 - 07:43 PM' timestamp='1251769438' post='1959190']
My orginal version simply wasn't suitable. My warn level is high enough, already.
[/quote]
I thought it was an acceptable post... but then again, I agreed with you so I'm obviously biassed.

[Winchester]

A-What a wonderful idea. However, lving on the edge with a high public regard appeals to my ego.

Nihil--You read the original?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Winchester' date='31 August 2009 - 08:24 PM' timestamp='1251771890' post='1959228']
Nihil--You read the original?
[/quote]
I did. I would have given it an imprimi protest at least.

[havok579257]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' date='31 August 2009 - 09:41 PM' timestamp='1251769314' post='1959186']
When one assumes, he runs the risk out of making a fool of himself. If someone assumes that a couple is using birth control when they are, in fact, not, shame on the person making the assumptions - he should probably learn to mind his business and spend the time in which he contemplates the goings on of his neighbors' bedrooms saying the rosary or reading the Bible or crocheting or doing something at least minimally constructive.
If a man publicly supports the mass murder of the unborn, does so in direct defiance of the Church, when all along he has been instructed not to support this evil, and then passes away, all the while having never changed his stances or even done so much as renounce his support, then yes, this is a great opportunity for scandal. There are many ignorant Catholics who may see this as an invitation to support abortion - see the other baptized Catholics in government: Biden; Pelosi; the other Kennedy(s); and so on. Many look to these and their support of the immoral as an affirmation of their will to support things like abortion. Unfortunately, they pay more attention to CNN than their Bishops, and fall for their webs of lies and half-baked rationalizations - however, I pity these bigwig Catholics when they have to talk their ways out of their lifelong support for the slaughter of innocents when they meet Jesus. That is a conversation I have NO inclination to have.
[/quote]


but at the same time is it not catholic's own fault(the ones who don't understand the faith) for not understanding the only way kennedy would be allowed a catholic funeral would be if he went to confession and asked for forgiveness of his sins, all his sins? i am by no means a supported of kennedy, never have been, but it seems to me, at his end he saw the light, accpeted his mikstakes and asked for forgiveness. if he was contrite, then he recieved forgiveness. should what is on the inside not be important here? also I feel if someone is already for abortion and contraception, then there stance is not going to change if kennedy gets a catholic funeral or not. either way they will distort the truth to meet their wants. if they claim to be catholic, then its their responsibility to undertsand that kennedy recieved confession right before his death and that means he asked for forgivness for all his sins against God.

i am not a big fan of the church and catholics trying to avoid scandel because everyone who is against us, distorts the truth no matter what. they distort the truth when the molestating scandel was happening. they said because it happened with a priest, it must mean the church approves of it. never mind that man iss flawed and it was men who did the molesting, not the church. my point being, anything can lead to scandel. anyone can distort the truth to make it into scandel. i mean the jews considered just about everything jesus did to be scandelous. i think we should stop worrying about what others might percieve as scandel and live, teach and preach the word of God and if they don't listen, no matter how hard we try, well then we keep trying. In the end, they will have to answer for their sins and refusing to listen.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' date='31 August 2009 - 09:58 PM' timestamp='1251773882' post='1959247']
I did. I would have given it an imprimi [s]protest[/s] potest at least.
[/quote]

Edited September 1, 2009 by Resurrexi

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='31 August 2009 - 10:16 PM' timestamp='1251778565' post='1959294']

[/quote]
NO WONDER I KEPT GETTING CONFUSED WHEN I TRIED TO REMEMBER WHAT THEY ALL MEANT!!

I misread it, saw it as protest, then kept assuming that it was implying something being in the way, when really that's what the Nihil Obstat implies all on its own.

Well that makes my day. Thanks!

[Nihil Obstat]

Plus one, my friend.

[Guest Sean]

[font="Times New Roman, Times, serif"][color="#333366"][i]General Instruction of the Roman Missal 2000
382. At the funeral Mass there should, as a rule be a short homily, but never a eulogy of any kind....[/i][/color][/font] [left][i][font="Times New Roman, Times, serif"][color="#333366"] [b]Order of Christian Funerals[/b]
27. A brief homily based on the readings is always given after the gospel reading at the funeral liturgy and may also be given after the readings at the vigil service; but there is never to be a eulogy.[/color][/font][/i][/left]
[left][i][font="Times New Roman, Times, serif"][color="#333366"] [b]VIGIL AND RELATED RITES AND PRAYERS
[/b] 62. ... After this prayer (Prayer of Intercession) and before the blessing or at some suitable time during the vigil, a member of the family or a friend of the deceased may speak in remembrance of the deceased.[/color][/font][/i][/left]
[left][i][font="Times New Roman, Times, serif"][color="#333366"][b]Catechism of the Catholic Church
[/b] 1688. The liturgy of the Word during funerals demands very careful preparation.... The homily in particular must avoid the literary genre of funeral eulogy (OCF 41) and illumine the mystery of Christian death in the light of the risen Christ. [/color][/font][/i][/left]

[Guest Sean]

[b]Presiding at the Funeral Liturgy[/b]

[b]Funeral Policy[/b]

[b]Presiding at the Funeral Liturgy[/b]
1. Only a bishop, priest or deacon is allowed to preach the homily at the funeral liturgy.

2. A eulogy is not appropriate where a homily is prescribed (OCF#27), although examples from the person's life may be used in thehomily. The literary genre of eulogy is not a homiletic form. Rather,the homily is to "illumine the mystery of Christian death in the lightof the Risen Christ." ([i]Catechism of the Catholic Church[/i] #1687) as proclaimed in the readings.

3. Excellence in preaching is of critical importance to theevangelizing task of the Church, especially at a moment when thefaithful who live apart from the regular life of the Church may yearnfor a message of faith and Christian hope.

4. In the Archdiocese of Boston, one speaker chosen by the familymay offer not more than a five-minute remembrance of the deceased atthe Funeral Liturgy before the final commendation. The remarks are tobe simple, brief, and prepared. Care must be taken to follow this. Somepriests have found it helpful to see the text beforehand. Within thecontext of a liturgy, the tone should remain one of faith and hope.

5. Other occasions might offer opportunities for individuals to share remembrances of the deceased.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='havok579257' date='31 August 2009 - 09:24 PM' timestamp='1251768272' post='1959168']
so now is the equvilant of judas and the archdiocese are the equivilant of the pharises who got jesus crucified? yeah, that makes sense, that very christian, comparing anyone to judas and the pharises who killed jesus.
[/quote]
Your nose is pressed too hard on the glass. Step away from the glass.

1) I said "IF." I knew I should bolded it. I will give them the benefit of the doubt, but I am suspect given how much they compromised already.
2) I made a general comparison to the Judas/Pharisee story, not an exact equivalent. Can people be compromised? Can organizations be compromised? Yes.

[Winchester]

[quote name='havok579257' date='01 September 2009 - 12:11 AM' timestamp='1251778287' post='1959291']
i mean the jews considered just about everything jesus did to be scandelous. [/quote]
All of them? Weren't the Apostles Jews?

You really don't seem to comprehend the meaning of scandal.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='havok579257' date='01 September 2009 - 12:11 AM' timestamp='1251778287' post='1959291']
but at the same time is it not catholic's own fault(the ones who don't understand the faith) for not understanding the only way kennedy would be allowed a catholic funeral would be if he went to confession and asked for forgiveness of his sins, all his sins? i am by no means a supported of kennedy, never have been, but it seems to me, at his end he saw the light, accpeted his mikstakes and asked for forgiveness. if he was contrite, then he recieved forgiveness. should what is on the inside not be important here? [/quote]
Did you read [url="http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/29/kennedy.pope.letter/index.html"]the portion of Kennedy's letter to the pope that was released[/url]? It didn't sound like someone contrite or very sorrowful. It read like a resume. It's like Teddy thought the pope was conducting an interview. And if the interview didn't go well, the pope wasn't going to let him get on that bus to heaven. The portion released is very Ted centered. "Me, me, me."

[quote]also I feel if someone is already for abortion and contraception, then there stance is not going to change if kennedy gets a catholic funeral or not. either way they will distort the truth to meet their wants. if they claim to be catholic, then its their responsibility to undertsand that kennedy recieved confession right before his death and that means he asked for forgivness for all his sins against God.[/quote]
If you think of sin as a car accident between two automobiles, God's forgiveness is the cop saying "Ok. I won't give you a ticket." Your driving record will not show the accident you caused. However, someone else's property is still damaged. Who repairs it? Who pays for it? Teddy's sins may have been forgiven, but what of the damage he has wrought? Did he do anything before dying to repair the damage he caused? Someone mentioned publicly recanting on his support for abortion. That would have been a great way to undo some damage.