Can Obama Deliver A Eulogy At A Catholic Funeral Mass?

[franciscanheart]

i very very recently attended a couple of catholic funerals where there was something like eulogy read during the mass.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='StColette' date='28 August 2009 - 08:01 PM' timestamp='1251486115' post='1957361']
I've only been to two but neither had a eulogy at the Funeral, but one was given at the vigil (wake)
[/quote]
The only Catholic wake I've attended was for the husband of a Polish friend, and I've no idea if they had a eulogy because I don't understand Polish. I did join in when they prayed the Rosary and hoped they didn't mind that I was praying in English.

Edited August 29, 2009 by Archaeology cat

[Winchester]

It's already messed up: Ted Kennedy shouldn't have been given a Catholic funeral in the first place.

[eagle_eye222001]

http://www.americanpapist.com/2009/08/kennedy-funeral-girm-vs-archdiocese-of.html

Mr. Obama is scheduled to give a five minute eulogy at Mr. Kennedy's funeral tomorrow.

This is a classic example for why it would have been good for the Archdiocese of Boston to follow the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, which reads:

382. At the Funeral Mass there should, as a rule, be a short homily, but never a eulogy of any kind.

A eulogy can still be delivered, of course, at the cemetary.
The GIRM also says:

385. ...Pastors should, moreover, take into special account those who are present at a liturgical celebration or who hear the Gospel on the occasion of the funeral and who may be non-Catholics or Catholics who never or rarely participate in the Eucharist or who seem even to have lost the faith. For priests are ministers of Christ's Gospel for all.

In other words - the GIRM wants preaching to the congregation instead of the congregation (Mr. Obama) doing the preaching.

But this is what the Archdiocese of Boston proscribes:

18. Following the prayer after Communion and before the Final Commendation, only one speaker, a member or a friend of the family, may speak for not more than five minutes in remembrance of the deceased.


... and here we are.

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='Hassan' date='28 August 2009 - 02:53 PM' timestamp='1251485625' post='1957350']
Right. Which is why Obama has been keeping the Ramadan fast, praying five times a day, absolutely refused publicly invite individuals to consume alcoholic beverages with him, worked to end gay marriage, civil unions and any state laws supporting that "perversion", and has publicly decried abortion.

Not to mention his habit of refusing to be seen with the area of his body from the navel to the knees.




[img]http://camelsnose.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/obama-beach-photo.jpg[/img]



I mean really the evidence for Obama's Islamic faith is just overwhelming.
[/quote]

Yeah, Obama's never struck me as being much of a Muslim. Or Christian for that matter. Even though he had a pastor that was pretty wacko, Obama himself doesn't strike me as being a particularly religious person in general, at least from interviews of him that I've read. Whatever it is he follows is pretty vague and watered down.

Edited August 29, 2009 by Ash Wednesday

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='29 August 2009 - 08:17 AM' timestamp='1251555461' post='1957764']
Yeah, Obama's never struck me as being much of a Muslim. Or Christian for that matter. Even though he had a pastor that was pretty wacko, Obama himself doesn't strike me as being a particularly religious person in general, at least from interviews of him that I've read. Whatever it is he follows is pretty vague and watered down.
[/quote]
I agree. He sounds like a neo-gnostic in the interview where he described his religious beliefs.

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='29 August 2009 - 11:02 AM' timestamp='1251558159' post='1957792']
I agree. He sounds like a neo-gnostic in the interview where he described his religious beliefs.
[/quote]

And if I'm not mistaken, he was raised in a household that had basically no religion at all. His dad was raised Muslim but was atheist as an adult, and his mom was largely skeptical of "organized religion" (I do not like that term because it often is used in a negative light).

Admittedly, the cynic in me thinks Obama decided to "get some religion" and find a church when he started thinking about a political career.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='28 August 2009 - 12:54 PM' timestamp='1251482047' post='1957290']
It would be interesting to see if that quotation is based on the older liturgical books, or the more recently issued texts.
[/quote]

There is nothing like a eulogy in the [url="http://www.sanctamissa.org/en/resources/books-1962/rituale-romanum/43-burial-of-adults.html"]Rite of Christian Burial[/url] of the extraordinary form of the Roman Rite.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='29 August 2009 - 10:23 AM' timestamp='1251563037' post='1957867']
There is nothing like a eulogy in the [url="http://www.sanctamissa.org/en/resources/books-1962/rituale-romanum/43-burial-of-adults.html"]Rite of Christian Burial[/url] of the extraordinary form of the Roman Rite.
[/quote]
By "older" books I meant those issued in the 1970s and 80s.

[peach_cube]

We are way beyond one person speaking.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Winchester' date='29 August 2009 - 09:05 AM' timestamp='1251551114' post='1957730']
It's already messed up: Ted Kennedy shouldn't have been given a Catholic funeral in the first place.
[/quote]


You do know he recieved confession, anoiting of the sick and communion before he died? So it would seem he asked for forgiveness of his sins. So why should we refuse a catholic funeral to him?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='havok579257' date='29 August 2009 - 10:43 AM' timestamp='1251564183' post='1957891']
So why should we refuse a catholic funeral to him?
[/quote]
Because he publicly took stands against Church teaching on moral issues and never publicly recanted.

[Hassan]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='28 August 2009 - 11:47 PM' timestamp='1251517625' post='1957633']
Were the flags flying at halfmast today for Kennedy?

I noticed one at a college at halfmast, and that's the only reason I could think of for it.

But it struck me as odd... that's not normally done for deceased congressmen is it?
[/quote]


They were at half mast on campus and in front of the Chapel Hill post office

[Winchester]

[quote name='havok579257' date='29 August 2009 - 12:43 PM' timestamp='1251564183' post='1957891']
You do know he recieved confession, anoiting of the sick and communion before he died? So it would seem he asked for forgiveness of his sins. So why should we refuse a catholic funeral to him?
[/quote]
Scandal.

Did he issue any statement recanting the stances that put him in a state of excommunication? He was able to stump for Obama, but unable to put together a single sentence saying that abortion is murder?

[s]He was scum.[/s] I hope he went to heaven, but giving him a Catholic funeral legitimizes the evil he supported and never rejected publicly.

Edited August 29, 2009 by Winchester

[Ash Wednesday]

[quote name='Winchester' date='29 August 2009 - 01:19 PM' timestamp='1251566379' post='1957905']
Scandal.

Did he issue any statement recanting the stances that put him in a state of excommunication? He was able to stump for Obama, but unable to put together a single sentence saying that abortion is murder?

[s]He was scum.[/s] I hope he went to heaven, but giving him a Catholic funeral legitimizes the evil he supported and never rejected publicly.
[/quote]

Yeah, that's pretty much the issue -- the public nature of his defiance towards the Church and the issue of whether or not a church funeral would be scandalizing to the faithful. The question of whether or not he should receive a Church funeral is not a judgment on his soul. They would have still said a mass for him, just not a church funeral. As is, it's left up to the ordinary and his decision stands. They allowed him to have a funeral so there we have it. I kind of understand people's objections though, because this is a pretty public and widely followed Church funeral and I don't recall him doing anything to publicly recant some of the things he's done to make amends.

I kind of wonder if the Archdiocese of Boston was afraid of doing anything to make news in light of the molestation scandals that plagued them a while back.

Edited August 29, 2009 by Ash Wednesday

[Winchester]

Fear of anything but the Lord has no place in a Bishop's decisions.

[picchick]

1) I didn't know that they could be given at the Funeral Mass. My experience has always been wakes and at the burial site. Thanks Jennie! I learned something new

2) No, Obama should not be giving anything at a Catholic Mass. Period.

3) I wish Bishops and Cardinals spoke out more on Catholic politicians who do not live the right lifestyle. I know we all have our dirt under the rug but we should strive to live a Catholic life. I don't know if he reverted on his deathbed or what happened at the end. No one knows I guess. But is a Catholic funeral proper for a Cathoic who lived nothing but a Catholic life? We don't want them recieving communion but what about a burial?

Maybe I am not thinking about it the right way...is a Catholic funeral the same as any Christian burial?

4)We were all up in arms about him just SPEAKING at a Catholic University. Why is a Catholic Mass any less significant?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='picchick' date='29 August 2009 - 02:53 PM' timestamp='1251571987' post='1957964']
1) I didn't know that they could be given at the Funeral Mass. My experience has always been wakes and at the burial site. Thanks Jennie! I learned something new
[/quote]

-Jennie typing-

I talked it over with Micah and his take on it seems to be that even if someone is allowed to speak before the Final Commendation that doesn't mean it's to be a eulogy. Someone quoted the GIRM up above that said that eulogies should not be aloud. So it seems that a family member or friend may speak at the funeral Mass before the Final Commendation, but it shouldn't be a eulogy type speech or whatever.

[Saint Therese]

A dude on EWTN said that it says in the GIRM expressly that eulogies aren't allowed.

[picchick]

[quote name='Raphael' date='29 August 2009 - 03:11 PM' timestamp='1251573078' post='1957971']
-Jennie typing-

I talked it over with Micah and his take on it seems to be that even if someone is allowed to speak before the Final Commendation that doesn't mean it's to be a eulogy. Someone quoted the GIRM up above that said that eulogies should not be aloud. So it seems that a family member or friend may speak at the funeral Mass before the Final Commendation, but it shouldn't be a eulogy type speech or whatever.
[/quote]

hmmm...I don't know. I am not trying to argue, just understand. If someone of my family died, I don't know what I would say that wasn't eulogy-like. Unless it is a format or something. We really didn't cover it in English or Speech class.