Don't Cry For Me Argentina

[Nunsense]

Ok, I know that I never expected to be back here until I was a fully professed Carmelite and had convinced the Prioress that we needed to be posting in Vocation Station on phatmass!

But, and here we must remember the total mercy and kindness of the Lord, I was asked to leave Kirk Edge, and of course my heart is still grieving, even though I have no resentment or bitterness about the decision made by Mother Prioress. It is way too complicated to go into here on the phorum, but all I can say is that I still love Kirk Edge Monastery and the community there and I warmly recommend them to anyone who wants a fully traditional 1990s Carmel.

I did nothing wrong (such obedience you wouldn't believe) and Mother even wrote me a lovely letter of reference (saying that I was a hard worker and very obedient!) and she told me that she would be happy to speak to other Carmels on my behalf if I so wished. She was also very generous with me and helped me financially, since she knew that it was only through benefactor's contributions that I managed to get there in the first place.

I know that Laudem Gloriae has applied to enter there, and been accepted, and I truly hope that nothing stands in her way. If they would have me back, I would be there in a shot! I am happy to write to anyone privately about this but posting all the details online just seems inappropriate to me right now. I met with a priest at Mother's request and after a two hour discussion (he was fantastic), he told her that he just felt there was a cultural misunderstanding between us, but she didn't feel that it was something we could get beyond. I asked if she felt more time would work things out (I was there for four months) but she said she didn't think so, and didn't feel that she would be able to clothe me, so there was nothing else I could do but smile graciously and accept her decision. I am very sore at heart and know that I need to grieve for the loss, but I am also being held in God's embrace, so I know it is an exercise in trust.

I had nowhere to go in the States since my brother changed jobs and had to move, so I came back to Melbourne Australia, where I left ten years ago! I am now trying to re-establish contact with old colleagues and friends and find a job and a place to live. I am back in a motel because my sister, who does live here, just happens to be in India right now visiting her husband's relatives! Did I use the word "trust"? Ah yes, trust.... lol - we just gotta love the way the Lord works in our lives, don't we?

I still consider myself to be a nun - but not enclosed any more - only God knows where this will lead me. When I was leaving, the depositrix told me that I should start a community - she was so sweet - actually all of the sisters were, and some of them were near tears - I loved them all. I kept pushing aside the idea of starting a new community since there are so many new ones already and I couldn't imagine a new charism that hadn't already been considered. But Australia doesn't seem to have as many new ones as the US and I do believe that there is a definite need for contemplatives in the world. I read the topic here about the non-cloistered contemplatives, so there are a lot of those, and I am not quite sure how this would be different yet, but I saw that the Cloistered Carmelites simply had no idea of what people today are going through in their day to day lives. They serve a truly vital function as a powerhouse of prayer in the world, but I think there is also a need for contemplatives who actually interact with the world and prayer for more specific intentions and needs. Anyway, that is what I am working on right now. First I want to learn how to live this life of a contemplative nun in the world myself, and then I might consider trying to make it into a community of religious sisters. I don't look forward to all the complications of being a foundress (Gemma save me!) because I saw what Rosalind had to go through - and she is still working on hers(!) so maybe I will just take it one day at a time until God forgets about me over here.

So, nunsense is back online - in a totally unexpected turn of events. I am on Facebook if anyone wants to be my friend (doesn't that sound sad - lol - I don't mean it like that - ha ha! Just search annierosha@yahoo.com

Don't cry for me, but please do keep me in your prayers, as I keep all of you in mine. I am still in a bit of a shock as you can imagine, it has only been 4 days since I left and sometimes I tear up a little myself, but I have so much love for Our Lord, and I know that He is totally and personally taking care of me in His great kindness. Praise Him now and forever.

[VeniteAdoremus]

It's great to have you back.

I learned a bit about cultural differences - the language might not be a problem, the differences are still there! I'm so sorry that M. Prioress thought them insurmountable in your case.

You're in my prayers!

[mariaassunta]

Praise God for your unending trust and surrender and in just a few months you have got half way around the world! You never expected that! I am praying for you feel free to private message me on Face-book. Looking forward to hearing from you and holding you in prayers always.

[HisChild]

God bless you, Annie. I've been where you are and know it's difficult. I am going to an EF Mass today and will keep you in my prayers.

[Muus]

God bless you Annie! What a news! Sometimes will God closed a door and open a another door. I find you a courageous woman

[Gemma]

[quote name='nunsense' date='30 August 2009 - 08:41 AM' timestamp='1251632502' post='1958250']
Ok, I know that I never expected to be back here until I was a fully professed Carmelite and had convinced the Prioress that we needed to be posting in Vocation Station on phatmass!

But, and here we must remember the total mercy and kindness of the Lord, I was asked to leave Kirk Edge, and of course my heart is still grieving, even though I have no resentment or bitterness about the decision made by Mother Prioress. It is way too complicated to go into here on the phorum, but all I can say is that I still love Kirk Edge Monastery and the community there and I warmly recommend them to anyone who wants a fully traditional 1990s Carmel.

I did nothing wrong (such obedience you wouldn't believe) and Mother even wrote me a lovely letter of reference (saying that I was a hard worker and very obedient!) and she told me that she would be happy to speak to other Carmels on my behalf if I so wished. She was also very generous with me and helped me financially, since she knew that it was only through benefactor's contributions that I managed to get there in the first place.

I know that Laudem Gloriae has applied to enter there, and been accepted, and I truly hope that nothing stands in her way. If they would have me back, I would be there in a shot! I am happy to write to anyone privately about this but posting all the details online just seems inappropriate to me right now. I met with a priest at Mother's request and after a two hour discussion (he was fantastic), he told her that he just felt there was a cultural misunderstanding between us, but she didn't feel that it was something we could get beyond. I asked if she felt more time would work things out (I was there for four months) but she said she didn't think so, and didn't feel that she would be able to clothe me, so there was nothing else I could do but smile graciously and accept her decision. I am very sore at heart and know that I need to grieve for the loss, but I am also being held in God's embrace, so I know it is an exercise in trust.

I had nowhere to go in the States since my brother changed jobs and had to move, so I came back to Melbourne Australia, where I left ten years ago! I am now trying to re-establish contact with old colleagues and friends and find a job and a place to live. I am back in a motel because my sister, who does live here, just happens to be in India right now visiting her husband's relatives! Did I use the word "trust"? Ah yes, trust.... lol - we just gotta love the way the Lord works in our lives, don't we?

I still consider myself to be a nun - but not enclosed any more - only God knows where this will lead me. When I was leaving, the depositrix told me that I should start a community - she was so sweet - actually all of the sisters were, and some of them were near tears - I loved them all. I kept pushing aside the idea of starting a new community since there are so many new ones already and I couldn't imagine a new charism that hadn't already been considered. But Australia doesn't seem to have as many new ones as the US and I do believe that there is a definite need for contemplatives in the world. I read the topic here about the non-cloistered contemplatives, so there are a lot of those, and I am not quite sure how this would be different yet, but I saw that the Cloistered Carmelites simply had no idea of what people today are going through in their day to day lives. They serve a truly vital function as a powerhouse of prayer in the world, but I think there is also a need for contemplatives who actually interact with the world and prayer for more specific intentions and needs. Anyway, that is what I am working on right now. First I want to learn how to live this life of a contemplative nun in the world myself, and then I might consider trying to make it into a community of religious sisters. I don't look forward to all the complications of being a foundress (Gemma save me!) because I saw what Rosalind had to go through - and she is still working on hers(!) so maybe I will just take it one day at a time until God forgets about me over here.

So, nunsense is back online - in a totally unexpected turn of events. I am on Facebook if anyone wants to be my friend (doesn't that sound sad - lol - I don't mean it like that - ha ha! Just search annierosha@yahoo.com

Don't cry for me, but please do keep me in your prayers, as I keep all of you in mine. I am still in a bit of a shock as you can imagine, it has only been 4 days since I left and sometimes I tear up a little myself, but I have so much love for Our Lord, and I know that He is totally and personally taking care of me in His great kindness. Praise Him now and forever.
[/quote]

I thought my ears were burning.

Second one to come back in a month. Hmmm.

Anyway, I know about 3 aspiring Aussie founders (aspiring to cloistered Benedictine; eremitical laura; and some kind of lay association lived in community, respectively). You're on the right track with living the life first. I would keep my eyes open to the needs of your surrounding area. Contemplative-active has a strong prayer life, but gives the fruits of that contemplation to the world. Diocesan hermit is the easiest way to start a contemplative cloistered community, that is if that's where you're being attracted. (The Holy Ghost works on attraction).

Just write your own rule first, live it, and if your way of life attracts others, then start discerning a community.

Find the thread entitled "New Community--Oblate Sisters of Mary Magdalene" and the last few posts should cover how to found a community. There are links to posts on the founders and friends yahoo group.

You know you can email me off-board-- foundress2003@yahoo.com

Blessings,
Gemma

[Marie-Therese]

Oh Annie, while I am grieved for you, I know that the Lord does all things for His glory, and for your benefit. I continue to pray for the Lord to manifest His will in your life, I know that you will be an obedient daughter!!

I will add you on facebook.

[TradMom]

+Praised be Jesus Christ!

Dear Annie,

May God bless and hold you close. Thank you for your courage in sharing your journey. It must be difficult to share painful times after such hope and happiness. May God reward you for your honesty and for your honesty.

In times such as these, I often refer to the following antiphon. It reminds me to place my trust in His Sacred Heart. I have no doubt whatsoever that you are surrounded by love and feel much consolation by His very presence, which surely you feel as you follow His call, wherever that leads you. May that be a balm to your wounded heart.

[b]As for our God, he is in heaven: he hath done whatsoever pleased him.[/b]

Pax,

TradMom

[Nunsense]

Thank you everyone for all your love and support. Phatmass has been a real family to me through a lot of really tough times. But God is good (all good) and I am grateful just to have been given the beautiful graces of experiencing religious life, especially as a Carmelite, no matter what the outcome. Please do keep me in your prayers, as I keep all of you in mine.....

[Orans]

Dear Annie,

I’ve followed your inspiring Journey for a little over a year now. You have been very present in thought and prayer especially during this year. Several times I tried to contact you here in Phatmas but I stumbled always upon error messages which prevented it. I admire your courage not only for the steps of your Journey but also for posting your story when it is still happening and you are so vulnerable. Thank you for being such an example to all of us.

Let me share a little bit about my own Journey.

Thirty-two years ago today I made my First Profession in a cloistered contemplative and very traditional community. I was very young but had already gone through the ordeal of losing my cradle Catholic Faith in the University, searching for meaning in other Traditions and Faiths without success, falling into despair, and finally with God’s Grace finding a NEW Faith within my own Catholic Church.

It took me FOUR two-year noviciates, THREE first professions, and 8 years of temporary profession in two countries and three Communities to end up being told I was not going to be allowed to make perpetual vows in the religious community I finally had found that I could call HOME.

And yet none of those decisions were mistaken. Years later I realized that all of that search and apparent failure had been the personal training I needed ... God is faithful and knows what is doing. The fact that we don’t know the map of our Journey doesn’t change that God knows it and is always present in our present moment with Grace and Light -even if it is so bright that blinds us.

After all that meandering I had the immense blessing of a good spiritual director to help me overcome the abyss I seemed to face. Again I didn’t give up even though I had to start from scratch, now in still a new country, without money or work or medical or anything .... but trust in God, and PRAYER. One more 5-year noviciate later, I made public temporary profession as a hermitess and currently I’m preparing for perpetual profession.

I would not want to have missed the train of my Journey in any of the many stations of the way –I was tempted to do so, believe me. I am profoundly GRATEFUL to God who gave me perseverance, and ultimately the Risen Lord’s gift of Peace beyond understanding.

I pray for you at this time very especially. But I can only tell you, REJOICE!!!! Nothing is lost! Every day lived in religious life is a great GRACE, you know that. Maybe you needed to find the perfect community in order to give up your personal dream and MOVE ON into God’s dream for you. God still has a plan for you. Everything that went before was necessary, but TODAY is the first day of the rest of your life, which is –now even more than ever- anchored in God, and God alone.

Give yourself TIME to process all that has happened in your life in the last 15 months. Find a spiritual director –or go back to a good one you may have had- and be sure that the Lord is with you NOW. The future is nothing more than a succession of present moments, if we live the present moment faithfully there is no way that we will fail or miss the train.

With deep affection and continuos prayer, your fellow journeyer and sister in Christ,
Orans

[DameAgnes]

Annie, you are such a tremendous witness to the virtues of trust and hope, and I am so inspired by your post, even as I grieve for what can only be a keen sense of loss.

But as soon as I read the words that the sister said to you, that you should found your own community, I got goosebumps, because it seemed so very right. And then Oran's marvelous, harrowing, wonderful story. Whoever said Christianity is for wimps?

God is not done with you, yet. Something wonderful is going to come from all of this, and you will look back and say, "ah...yes, that was what I needed to learn here, and this was what I needed to learn there..."

You remain in my prayers, and I hope you will keep praying for my own ones. What an adventure you are on. You could not stand it if you did not know you were so very loved.

Edit: I just wanted to add something. Is it just me or does it seem to others that God has put into motion in the world a tremendous transitional work? His gears move differently and more slowly than ours. Considering the upheavals after the second vatican council, and how the gear turned and everyone thought, "oh what now?" and it seemed like the consecrated life would be over in a few more years, it seems to me that the gear is nearing completion of its turn, that soon we will hear the "click" of God's plan fitting rightly into place, in a way we can all see and understand. Suddenly so many women and men forming new orders, so many advancing toward lives of total renunciation, the resurgence of hermits and even anchorites. It speaks very hopefully to me, it tells me God did not do all his best work in the middle ages (not that I ever thought so, but I know people in the world who think it), but that God continues, unchanged, Eternal, the great I AM, who IS and who has predestined us to be his own. God bless, Annie!

Edited August 31, 2009 by DameAgnes

[Nunsense]

Once again I have to thank my phatmass phamily for all the love and support. I am at a library running out of time on the computer so will keep this short, and so many people have emailed me individually so I want to get back to everyone - please don't think I am ignoring you if I haven't written yet. I will also try to reply more on here, as soon as I am back online.

May God bless you all for your kindness and love
Annie

[DevotedtoHim]

Dear Annie,

We missed you! I think your vocation is be a presence on Phatmass! Welcome home, and I love your ability to be open!

Katherine

[InHisLove726]

I am so sorry I did not respond sooner. I have been trying to keep my internet use to the bare minimum, so I have been on Phatmass very little except as a lurker.

Annie, you have such trust in the Lord. To be honest, I was in disbelief that you had returned because I was so sure that you had found the place you could call home. It was a lesson for me, because we never know what the Lord has in store for us. We may think we know, but we do not. I'm so sorry that Mother Prioress felt it best you should leave. It sounds like the situation was handled tactfully, however, but I don't think you would have had less heartache anyhow. I grieve for your situation. You are a like a wanderer without a place to call home at the moment. God has placed you in the desert to remind you of how much He suffered when people turned Him away and He felt misunderstood. Now you are more understanding of what He went through, and you can console Him better. I do not doubt that this happened without good reason. I think you must have learned at least one important lesson during your 4 months there and your trust and faith grew stronger.

May you rejoice in the mystery of the birth of Our Lord in Bethlehem in the poorest of places and the knowledge that He is holding you so close right now.

"The greatest of Kings had no place to lay His head."

[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5VkZnxOa_3Q/SNtygptIvfI/AAAAAAAAAh4/Fnh69-IOhvQ/s400/jesus-desert.jpg[/img]

Edited September 1, 2009 by InHisLove726

[Nunsense]

[quote name='DevotedtoHim' date='01 September 2009 - 11:46 AM' timestamp='1251762403' post='1959099']
Dear Annie,

We missed you! I think your vocation is be a presence on Phatmass! Welcome home, and I love your ability to be open!

Katherine
[/quote]


Oh, now this one really made me laugh - a vocation to be on phatmass! You have made me smile, and that really deserves some thanks! I haven't felt like smiling for nearly a week now! Thank you , thank you.... lol.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='Orans' date='31 August 2009 - 04:42 PM' timestamp='1251693771' post='1958723']
Dear Annie,

I’ve followed your inspiring Journey for a little over a year now. You have been very present in thought and prayer especially during this year. Several times I tried to contact you here in Phatmas but I stumbled always upon error messages which prevented it. I admire your courage not only for the steps of your Journey but also for posting your story when it is still happening and you are so vulnerable. Thank you for being such an example to all of us.

Let me share a little bit about my own Journey.

Thirty-two years ago today I made my First Profession in a cloistered contemplative and very traditional community. I was very young but had already gone through the ordeal of losing my cradle Catholic Faith in the University, searching for meaning in other Traditions and Faiths without success, falling into despair, and finally with God’s Grace finding a NEW Faith within my own Catholic Church.

It took me FOUR two-year noviciates, THREE first professions, and 8 years of temporary profession in two countries and three Communities to end up being told I was not going to be allowed to make perpetual vows in the religious community I finally had found that I could call HOME.

And yet none of those decisions were mistaken. Years later I realized that all of that search and apparent failure had been the personal training I needed ... God is faithful and knows what is doing. The fact that we don’t know the map of our Journey doesn’t change that God knows it and is always present in our present moment with Grace and Light -even if it is so bright that blinds us.

After all that meandering I had the immense blessing of a good spiritual director to help me overcome the abyss I seemed to face. Again I didn’t give up even though I had to start from scratch, now in still a new country, without money or work or medical or anything .... but trust in God, and PRAYER. One more 5-year noviciate later, I made public temporary profession as a hermitess and currently I’m preparing for perpetual profession.

I would not want to have missed the train of my Journey in any of the many stations of the way –I was tempted to do so, believe me. I am profoundly GRATEFUL to God who gave me perseverance, and ultimately the Risen Lord’s gift of Peace beyond understanding.

I pray for you at this time very especially. But I can only tell you, REJOICE!!!! Nothing is lost! Every day lived in religious life is a great GRACE, you know that. Maybe you needed to find the perfect community in order to give up your personal dream and MOVE ON into God’s dream for you. God still has a plan for you. Everything that went before was necessary, but TODAY is the first day of the rest of your life, which is –now even more than ever- anchored in God, and God alone.

Give yourself TIME to process all that has happened in your life in the last 15 months. Find a spiritual director –or go back to a good one you may have had- and be sure that the Lord is with you NOW. The future is nothing more than a succession of present moments, if we live the present moment faithfully there is no way that we will fail or miss the train.

With deep affection and continuos prayer, your fellow journeyer and sister in Christ,
Orans
[/quote]


Thank you for sharing all that with me. I think you went through much more than I have because you have actually taken vows and then had to leave. The thing that hurts so much is that I didn't want to leave. The first two Carmels, I knew that I didn't belong there, so it hurt, but I think I didn't feel rejected. This time I felt as if I were doing everything so right, and it all seemed to be God's will for me... so I guess it feels a little like being rejected by God, although I know in my heart and logical mind that this is definitely not true. His love is so great that He will allow things to happen that hurt us, all for the good of our soul. I know this without any doubts, but still, the kernel of injured pride and self-love still causes pain. That's why I appreciate all your prayers so much - to help me deal with my demons of doubt and despair that I know are lurking just somewhere out of reach. This is a testing time for me, to enable me to grow in faith and confidence and complete trust in God's love, I know this, but it still hurts....

Thank you are for your love. Pray pray pray, please, that I may know His will and accept it and surrender to it. Thank you.

Edited September 1, 2009 by nunsense

[Nunsense]

[quote name='InHisLove726' date='01 September 2009 - 04:30 PM' timestamp='1251779417' post='1959304']
I am so sorry I did not respond sooner. I have been trying to keep my internet use to the bare minimum, so I have been on Phatmass very little except as a lurker.

Annie, you have such trust in the Lord. To be honest, I was in disbelief that you had returned because I was so sure that you had found the place you could call home. It was a lesson for me, because we never know what the Lord has in store for us. We may think we know, but we do not. I'm so sorry that Mother Prioress felt it best you should leave. It sounds like the situation was handled tactfully, however, but I don't think you would have had less heartache anyhow. I grieve for your situation. You are a like a wanderer without a place to call home at the moment. God has placed you in the desert to remind you of how much He suffered when people turned Him away and He felt misunderstood. Now you are more understanding of what He went through, and you can console Him better. I do not doubt that this happened without good reason. I think you must have learned at least one important lesson during your 4 months there and your trust and faith grew stronger.

May you rejoice in the mystery of the birth of Our Lord in Bethlehem in the poorest of places and the knowledge that He is holding you so close right now.

"The greatest of Kings had no place to lay His head."

[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5VkZnxOa_3Q/SNtygptIvfI/AAAAAAAAAh4/Fnh69-IOhvQ/s400/jesus-desert.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Thank you so much. I had to write a reply just to tell you that I love your signature quote. "Christ, so foolish in His love, has driven me madly in love."--St. Teresa of the Andes

I am madly in love with Our Lord too, and I just love it when I read quotes like this! Thank you.

[kavalamyself]

Glad to have you back.

[MissyP89]

Oh, Annie...I'm not even discerning the religious life, yet I've come to have such a profound respect for your resilience.

I don't know how much it will help to hear this, considering you could be my biological mother and my call is to marriage, but look at all you've done and seen and been through! It's so beautiful, the things that He's shown you.

Try to embrace it. All of these twists and turns in the road have taught you a lot, I'm sure, and made you a lot stronger and maybe wiser along the way. God is still behind all of those things. He's seasoning you! Wherever you go, whatever you end up doing, your experiences now will have prepared you to handle it. For that, God is good.

Lots of love to you. Maybe when things settle down a bit, I'll drop you a message. =)

~Melissa

[Nunsense]

You are all so sweet to me! Thank you MissyP89 for that lovely post, and to all of you for the words of encouragement and support.

Well, it has been just two weeks tomorrow since I left Kirk Edge, and finally the clouds have lifted from my heart. There is absolutely no reason for it - I am still unemployed and living in a motel (and I even had to move to a cheaper one today), and still don't know what the future holds for me, and I am still missing Kirk Edge, but it's ok. God is very kind.

Some of the advice I have had is to maintain a regular prayer life, and this has really helped me. I have been praying the Office, and meditating just as if I were still in Carmel, and today I was fortunate enough to get to two Masses! I went into the city and found an old church and spent time praying the Office and then the rosary, but Mass wasn't for another two hours, so I went to visit a larger church, the oldest Catholic church in Melbourne, because they have Exposition during the day, but when I got there, Mass was just starting. I couldn't receive Communion because I had eaten recently, but I stayed for Mass, and the homily was so good! Afterwards, I headed back to the first church and attended Mass there and this homily was also good, and the best thing was that by this time, I was able to receive Communion. Then I stayed for meditation afterwards, and felt such peace when I finally left.

This evening, after I prayed Vespers (in my new motel room), I spent another hour in meditation. So the whole day was really very focused on God, despite having to change accommodation. There probably won't be this much time every day to hang about churches, but until I get a job, there is no reason why I shouldn't maintain a monastic prayer schedule as much as possible. It just makes everything seem to have the right perspective.

I have also come to the conclusion that it's ok that I had to leave Kirk Edge, even though it has been very painful. I love Kirk Edge and pray for vocations for them all the time, but God has His own ideas and plans, and we all know that joke "If you want to make God laugh, tell Him your plans." I have no idea why this happened, or why any of the things that have happened so far in my discernment have happened, but as long as God knows, that's ok with me.

I am still a religious in my heart, but for now my consecration is an interior one only. That's ok though, God knows the state of my heart.

Thank you all for being there for me.