In The Image Of God.

[Secuutus]

If we are made in the image of God, does that mean God wants evil in the world? (Hitler, offcials in africa commiting genocide, etc)

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Secuutus' date='07 October 2009 - 12:29 PM' timestamp='1254932945' post='1979895']
If we are made in the image of God, does that mean God wants evil in the world? (Hitler, offcials in africa commiting genocide, etc)
[/quote]

We were made without sin. Adam and Eve were perfect until the Fall.

[perfectunion33]

No matter how much we sin or evil we commit we will always be in the image of God, because the soul is the image of God being that we have an intellect and a will. Now the likeness of God on the other hand was lost due to the fall of Adam and Eve, so we must continuely strive to become more like God.

[let_go_let_God]

Another way that I've heard it explained is that we were also created with immortal souls. So that like our Eternal God our souls would live on after our death. The difference between God and us is God was never created He has always been and always will be. We have a point that we were created and therefor cannot be eternal.

God bless-
LGLG

[Secuutus]

[quote name='let_go_let_God' date='07 October 2009 - 01:31 PM' timestamp='1254936687' post='1979987']
Another way that I've heard it explained is that we were also created with immortal souls. So that like our Eternal God our souls would live on after our death. The difference between God and us is God was never created He has always been and always will be. We have a point that we were created and therefor cannot be eternal.

God bless-
LGLG
[/quote]


But doesnt everything come from something, even God?

[HisChildForever]

[quote name='Secuutus' date='07 October 2009 - 01:38 PM' timestamp='1254937097' post='1980002']
But doesnt everything come from something, even God?
[/quote]

God is "excluded" from that rule because He stands outside of time.

[Secuutus]

How does he stand outside of time?

[Resurrexi]

That we are created in the image and likeness of God which means that God has given us a spirit endowed with intellect and free will.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Secuutus' date='07 October 2009 - 04:30 PM' timestamp='1254943811' post='1980111']
How does he stand outside of time?
[/quote]
God is the author, we are in the story. We are in the flowing river of time, He created time and is therefore outside it. Jesus entered the story to save us.

[Winchester]

time is a creature.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Winchester' date='07 October 2009 - 06:16 PM' timestamp='1254953776' post='1980280']
time is a creature.
[/quote]
A very cute, fluffy creature as I recall.

[Secuutus]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='07 October 2009 - 05:49 PM' timestamp='1254952154' post='1980261']
God is the author, we are in the story. We are in the flowing river of time, He created time and is therefore outside it. Jesus entered the story to save us.
[/quote]


So as catholics we are to just have faith in the fact that God is the creater of all? Even the time outside of our time? I just want to know who or what created God? and why? I feel sometimes I question to much, rather then just believe. My curiosity is to overwhelming sometimes, but I need to know. Everything has a beginning, why not God?


@resurrexi
If we are crated in the image and likness of God, doesn't that mean that even God is mean? God gives us free will, so if we choose to use our free will to follow God, and to be more like him, then suffering is part of being like God, right? He allows suffering, and allows suffering to others, if God can do it, why can't we?

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Secuutus' date='08 October 2009 - 02:03 AM' timestamp='1254981836' post='1980700']
So as catholics we are to just have faith in the fact that God is the creater of all? Even the time outside of our time? I just want to know who or what created God? and why? I feel sometimes I question to much, rather then just believe. My curiosity is to overwhelming sometimes, but I need to know. Everything has a beginning, why not God?
[/quote]

I understand where you're coming from. But, if the universe has no creator, then it is the essence of the universe to exist, and you've just made it God. You've got a choice, though: you can worship a lonely, expansive, unfeeling, unthinking universe that has no concern for or cognizance of you, or an omnipotent creator of that universe who created it out of love for the sake of mankind.

Here's a mental exercise for you. Start with yourself, and ask yourself, "What caused me?" Then go up the line, asking that question about your parents, your grandparents, then of everything that ever existed. Ultimately, you will end up at "love." The universe is a physical thing. Physical things tend toward catabolism (breaking down.) Love and virtue are some of the only things that do not necessarily break down over time. Love is not quantifiable by physical means, you can't see it in itself, you can't capture it in a brandy flask, but you see the results of love. It has physical expressions. It is real. There is something beyond the physical. Its existence cannot be explained, but its presence is made known by its actions. Its actions are good, and indicate that the Actor should be embraced. The billiard balls are not responsible for their own respective actions. There is a pretty good pool player behind their movements. We are responsible for our own actions. We've got a touch of the pool player in us, too. Something that is beyond the created universe.

On a completely unrelated note, have you gotten yourself a defense-from-assault rifle yet?

~Sternhauser

Edited October 8, 2009 by Sternhauser

[Nunsense]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='08 October 2009 - 08:49 AM' timestamp='1254952154' post='1980261']
God is the author, we are in the story. We are in the flowing river of time, He created time and is therefore outside it.

Jesus entered the story to save us.
[/quote]

That last line just makes my heart swell with love

[Secuutus]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='08 October 2009 - 10:27 AM' timestamp='1255012068' post='1980819']
I understand where you're coming from. But, if the universe has no creator, then it is the essence of the universe to exist, and you've just made it God. You've got a choice, though: you can worship a lonely, expansive, unfeeling, unthinking universe that has no concern for or cognizance of you, or an omnipotent creator of that universe who created it out of love for the sake of mankind.

Here's a mental exercise for you. Start with yourself, and ask yourself, "What caused me?" Then go up the line, asking that question about your parents, your grandparents, then of everything that ever existed. Ultimately, you will end up at "love." The universe is a physical thing. Physical things tend toward catabolism (breaking down.) Love and virtue are some of the only things that do not necessarily break down over time. Love is not quantifiable by physical means, you can't see it in itself, you can't capture it in a brandy flask, but you see the results of love. It has physical expressions. It is real. There is something beyond the physical. Its existence cannot be explained, but its presence is made known by its actions. Its actions are good, and indicate that the Actor should be embraced. The billiard balls are not responsible for their own respective actions. There is a pretty good pool player behind their movements. We are responsible for our own actions. We've got a touch of the pool player in us, too. Something that is beyond the created universe.

On a completely unrelated note, have you gotten yourself a defense-from-assault rifle yet?

~Sternhauser
[/quote]


I completely understand that. To me though Love can only go so far. I love my family, and my best friends. If chose not to love them anymore, then I wont. That's it. Love, to me, can be turned off and on at any time. I'm going to have to continue praying about this.

No I havnt gotten my a rifle yet. I need one. why whats up?

[Hassan]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='08 October 2009 - 10:27 AM' timestamp='1255012068' post='1980819']
I understand where you're coming from. But, if the universe has no creator, then it is the essence of the universe to exist, and you've just made it God. You've got a choice, though: you can worship a lonely, expansive, unfeeling, unthinking universe that has no concern for or cognizance of you, or an omnipotent creator of that universe who created it out of love for the sake of mankind.[/QUOTE]

I don't worship the universe.

[QUOTE]Here's a mental exercise for you. Start with yourself, and ask yourself, "What caused me?" Then go up the line, asking that question about your parents, your grandparents, then of everything that ever existed. Ultimately, [size="5"]you will end up at "love."[/size][/QUOTE]

How?

[QUOTE]The universe is a physical thing. Physical things tend toward catabolism (breaking down.) Love and virtue are some of the only things that do not necessarily break down over time. Love is not quantifiable by physical means, you can't see it in itself, you can't capture it in a brandy flask, but you see the results of love. It has physical expressions. It is real. There is something beyond the physical. Its existence cannot be explained, but its presence is made known by its actions. Its actions are good, and indicate that the Actor should be embraced. The billiard balls are not responsible for their own respective actions. There is a pretty good pool player behind their movements. We are responsible for our own actions. We've got a touch of the pool player in us, too. Something that is beyond the created universe. [/QUOTE]

Are genetic defects also signs of the benevolence of the creator?

[Jesus_lol]

just because McDonalds are made in the image of hamburgers, does not mean that real hamburgers and the cows they came from wish us harm and heartattacks.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Secuutus' date='08 October 2009 - 01:37 PM' timestamp='1255023460' post='1980969']
I completely understand that. To me though Love can only go so far. I love my family, and my best friends. If chose not to love them anymore, then I wont. That's it. Love, to me, can be turned off and on at any time. I'm going to have to continue praying about this.[/quote]

Think of God's love like you think of your humanity: you can't turn it off, because it's your nature, and you would never want to turn it off.

[quote]No I havnt gotten my a rifle yet. I need one. why whats up?
[/quote]

Of course you need one. Nothing in particular is up at the moment. I am just a firm believer that everyone who is not in prison/an asylum should be able to effectively defend himself against two and four-legged predators, and possibly zombies. And I want to encourage this righteous mindset in everyone.

~Sternhauser

[Nunsense]

[quote name='Sternhauser' date='10 October 2009 - 12:22 PM' timestamp='1255137721' post='1982094']

Of course you need one. Nothing in particular is up at the moment. I am just a firm believer that everyone who is not in prison/an asylum should be able to effectively defend himself against two and four-legged predators, and possibly zombies. And I want to encourage this righteous mindset in everyone.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]

So then what happened to "turn the other cheek" and "forgive your enemies"? Our Lord didn't fight back - He forgave even those who were crucifying Him.

[Sternhauser]

[quote]Sternhauser, on 08 October 2009 - 10:27 AM, said:

I understand where you're coming from. But, if the universe has no creator, then it is the essence of the universe to exist, and you've just made it God. You've got a choice, though: you can worship a lonely, expansive, unfeeling, unthinking universe that has no concern for or cognizance of you, or an omnipotent creator of that universe who created it out of love for the sake of mankind.[/quote]
Hassan responded: [quote] I don't worship the universe.[/quote]

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding your belief system, but you don't worship the true God, either, do you? So why bother saying you don't worship the universe?



Sternhauser wrote: [quote]
Here's a mental exercise for you. Start with yourself, and ask yourself, "What caused me?" Then go up the line, asking that question about your parents, your grandparents, then of everything that ever existed.Ultimately, you will end up at "love."[/quote]
Hassan responded:[quote]How?[/quote]

No answer I give will ever satisfy you. Secuutus understood.



Sternhauser wrote: [quote]The universe is a physical thing. Physical things tend toward catabolism (breaking down.) Love and virtue are some of the only things that do not necessarily break down over time. Love is not quantifiable by physical means, you can't see it in itself, you can't capture it in a brandy flask, but you see the results of love. It has physical expressions.It is real. There is something beyond the physical. Its existence cannot be explained, but its presence is made known by its actions. Its actions are good, and indicate that the Actor should be embraced. The billiard balls are not responsible for their own respective actions.There is a pretty good pool player behind their movements. We are responsible for our own actions. We've got a touch of the pool player in us, too. Something that is beyond the created universe.[/quote]
Hassan responded: [quote]Are genetic defects also signs of the benevolence of the creator? [/quote]

Indirectly, insofar as you still have a body which has the capacity to have defects, yes, genetic defects are signs of the benevolence of the Creator. Directly, however, genetic defects are signs of the effects of Adam's sin.

Nobody would know what "imperfect" meant unless they had some notion of what "perfect" is.

~Sternhauser

Edited October 10, 2009 by Sternhauser