Vocation Rant

[Annie12]

One day you will be able to go to mass! Don't worry!! I would suggest that you make a spiritual communion. I believe there is a prayer for that. Your parents can keep you away from church as much as they want but they can not touch your soul. Be assured that Jesus possesses your soul and he will never let you go! Watch the EWTN Mass either on the TV or internet and say the prayer for when you can't be at mass (the spiritual communion prayer). Here it is:
[quote][color=#000000][size=1]Spiritual Communion Prayer[/size][/color][color=#000000]
My Jesus, I believe that You are present in the Most Holy Sacrament.
I love You above all things, and I desire to receive You into my soul.
Since I cannot at this moment receive You sacramentally,
come at least spiritually into my heart.
I embrace You as if You were already there and unite myself wholly to You. [/color]
[color=#000000]Never permit me to be separated from You.[/color][/quote]
I Know what you mean when you say you have a very hard time praying. It's sooo hard. I just came out of a dry period in my prayer life. Start by saying a short prayer like the consecrating yourself to the sacred heart or the divine mercy chaplet. If you feel like you need to go to confession but can't I strongly suggest saying the Divine Mercy chaplet Regularly and the act of contrition. [color=#ff0000]NEVER[/color] lose hope!!!! It's the greatest temptation during trials but think of Catholics who were persecuted and put in jails. They didn't have access to mass or confession and they ended up being martyrs.

Remember that there is always hope. Jesus always loves you. You will be able to go to mass at some point in the future. Prayer can solve [i][color=#ff0000]all[/color][/i] problems. Never doubt the power of prayer! If you can't say a rosary just talk to God! Imagine your spiritual life as a candle, when you pray the flame grows brighter, thus giving you more energy to pray and when you don't pray the flame grows weaker and when you sin mortally the flame is extinguished. This was an analogy a CFR sister gave in one of her talks. As you build up your prayer life your spiritual flame with grow brighter and brighter. It may take more time given that you can't go to mass but you never know what wonderful things God has in store for those who chose his will!
Pray for your parents God will make them understand on his own time. You obviously Love Christs SOOO much! Just never lose hope!
I hope I have helped!

[font=georgia,serif][color=#800080][size=7]Trust in Jesus in ALL things![/size][/color][/font]

[Annie12]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1338943430' post='2441535']
It is wonderful that you love our Lord and His Church, but obedience to your parents right now is one way of becoming holy.
[/quote]

Yes, but I was taught by my parish priest in confirmation class that if our parents would cause us to sin we are under no obligation to obey them. If they do not follow our wishes to not sin after making them aware of of our your wishes, then it is not counted as a sin.

This is what I have always been taught...

[emmaberry]

I agree with all the people above who noted the saints who ran away from home to fulfill their vocations as nuns, but I also can't help but think of all the Saints whose parents said, "no way you are becoming a nun!" and the Saints said, "out of obedience to you, I will obey" and they stayed in their parents' house and made it a 'convent.' However, we must remember St teresa and St Clare's vocation journey as well!

Long story short, I have no good advice because of the above paradoxes--I can't, in good conscience, tell you to go to Mass behind your parents' back, out of obedience to them, your present superiors. On the other hand, I have always been taught that in the Bible where it says, "submit to your authorities" and "honor your father and mother" it only means submit in so far as it lines up with God's law as dictated by the Church. So it would SEEM (aka fact check me on this! ) that you could rightfully go to Mass without doing wrong in God's eyes. Then again, you also would not be doing anything wrong by obeying your parents and offering up your sufferings of missed communions.

I am sorry if I confused you more, and I am so sorry you are in that situation--and I thought my parents were bad! Just think, if you really have a religious vocation, one day when you are a nun, you will have such an INSPIRING vocations journey to share with young girls who come in with their own horror stories about their parents oppressing your vocation. This will be a fantastic way of encouraging others who are discerning once you come out on the other side.

Praying!!!

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Annie12' timestamp='1338946369' post='2441570']
Yes, but I was taught by my parish priest in confirmation class that if our parents would cause us to sin we are under no obligation to obey them. If they do not follow our wishes to not sin after making them aware of of our your wishes, then it is not counted as a sin.

This is what I have always been taught...
[/quote]

I understand what you are saying here Annie12, but unless she wants to enter into full scale war with her parents, it would be much better at this point to obey them or to try to reason with them rather than to defy them. After all, she is not the one committing the sin here, they are because they are constraining her. Under civil law, parents can make this decision for her. Under God's law, the sin is their's, not hers in this situation because she is unable to avoid the sin. Since she is unable to attend Mass and it is not through her own choice, she is not the one at fault. I think that the best thing would be to get the parish priest involved here and perhaps the parents can express their concerns to him, and she can express her desire to attend the sacraments. Maybe what they need is some reassurance that she is going to go slow with this discernment process and not get too excited too soon. I have to believe that they are making their mistakes through love, however misguided because as a parent myself, I know how easy it is to become very protective when one is concerned for the wellbeing of their child. After all, none of us know the situation apart from what we are being told, and there is always more than one way to view a situation. I recently heard a deacon give a homily in which he said that most disagreements could be resolved if all parties involved assumed that the other party was a person of 'good will'. Starting from the premise that the parents care about her, we need to find a solution that helps everyone feel better. Obedience to them is a good way to show that she wants to respect them, and it will give them room to step back and try to see her point of view as well. A mediator would be good here, if not a priest, then a respected family member or friend.

And if she disobeys them now, it will affect their relationship for a long time to come. Better to move slowly and keep the relationship intact.

Edited June 6, 2012 by nunsense

[Annie12]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1338947032' post='2441578']
I understand what you are saying here Annie12, but unless she wants to enter into full scale war with her parents, it would be much better at this point to obey them or to try to reason with them rather than to defy them. After all, she is not the one committing the sin here, they are because they are constraining her. Under civil law, parents can make this decision for her. Under God's law, the sin is their's, not hers in this situation because she is unable to avoid the sin. Since she is unable to attend Mass and it is not through her own choice, she is not the one at fault. I think that the best thing would be to get the parish priest involved here and perhaps the parents can express their concerns to him, and she can express her desire to attend the sacraments. Maybe what they need is some reassurance that she is going to go slow with this discernment process and not get too excited too soon. I have to believe that they are making their mistakes through love, however misguided because as a parent myself, I know how easy it is to become very protective when one is concerned for the wellbeing of their child. After all, none of us know the situation apart from what we are being told, and there is always more than one way to view a situation. I recently heard a deacon give a homily in which he said that most disagreements could be resolved if all parties involved assumed that the other party was a person of 'good will'. Starting from the premise that the parents care about her, we need to find a solution that helps everyone feel better. Obedience to them is a good way to show that she wants to respect them, and it will give them room to step back and try to see her point of view as well. A mediator would be good here, if not a priest, then a respected family member or friend.

And if she disobeys them now, it will affect their relationship for a long time to come. Better to move slowly and keep the relationship intact.
[/quote]

Yeah, this is what I meant to say Sorry if I sounded arrogant... I just wanted to make it clear that She is not the bad one in this situation here.

[emmaberry]

Annie12: I didn't get the impression you were being arrogant--although nunsense makes excellent points. Regardless, I thought it was very good advice.

[maximillion]

I still think it's abusive........besides as has been pointed out that it is the parents sin. I think nunsense has a good idea in getting the parish priest involved. It would be good not to start an all out war and too easy to be polarised and want others to take sides.
It's not a situation I would wish anyone to be in. Pray to The Little Flower....she was about your age and she had to end up going to the Pope.

[Annie12]

MonjuFutura, do you know anyone who you could sneak out of the house with and go to mass? If you had a friend who you could hang out with and go to mass with, you could just tell your parents that you are with your friend. You could go to Mass and a movie or something.

What does everyone else think? Is this too dishonest?

[Sister Marie]

[quote name='Annie12' timestamp='1338987246' post='2441721']
MonjuFutura, do you know anyone who you could sneak out of the house with and go to mass? If you had a friend who you could hang out with and go to mass with, you could just tell your parents that you are with your friend. You could go to Mass and a movie or something.

What does everyone else think? Is this too dishonest?
[/quote]

I think it is not only too dishonest but also dangerous. When you are fifteen your parents have every right to place restrictions on you and to know at all times where you are. What if there was a car accident? What if you got hurt? They wouldn't be able to help you and no one would know all your information or where you were.

You are not sinning by not attending Mass - you would be sinning if you sneaked out whether it be for mass or a wild party is irrelevant.

Your parents are not the bad guys. They may be wrong in this situation but it isn't because they are bad or wrong - it's because they love you and care about you so much that they want you to be a healthy and well-rounded young woman before you make any life changing decisions. They may be going about it the wrong way but it is certainly motivated by love and concern for you.

Do not - no matter what - let this become a "me vs. them" situation in your thoughts and in your heart. Both your parents and you want the best for you - you just disagree right now (as most teenagers and parents do!) on what the best is. If you let the situation polarize you no amount of discussion will be fruitful.

Maybe you could try to develop some other interests that your parents would view as more normative so that they feel able to permit you to go back to Mass. Work with them - join a sports team, take up photography, play an instrument... take the blessed middle path... it will give your parents some comfort.

[TheresaThoma]

I would also suggest giving it some time and then approaching them with a compromise. For example maybe there is someone near you that can give you a ride to Mass. That way your parents don't have to take you but they still know that you are only going once a week. If they are not open to that then you must accept this in obedience for now.

I've had to work something similar out with my parents. They tried to prevent me from going to Mass by not allowing me to use their car but I found a few people who lived near me that can give me rides to Mass. Then again I'm 21 so things are a bit different for me.

[Annie12]

[quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1338987880' post='2441724']
I think it is not only too dishonest but also dangerous. When you are fifteen your parents have every right to place restrictions on you and to know at all times where you are. What if there was a car accident? What if you got hurt? They wouldn't be able to help you and no one would know all your information or where you were.

You are not sinning by not attending Mass - you would be sinning if you sneaked out whether it be for mass or a wild party is irrelevant.

Your parents are not the bad guys. They may be wrong in this situation but it isn't because they are bad or wrong - it's because they love you and care about you so much that they want you to be a healthy and well-rounded young woman before you make any life changing decisions. They may be going about it the wrong way but it is certainly motivated by love and concern for you.

Do not - no matter what - let this become a "me vs. them" situation in your thoughts and in your heart. Both your parents and you want the best for you - you just disagree right now (as most teenagers and parents do!) on what the best is. If you let the situation polarize you no amount of discussion will be fruitful.

Maybe you could try to develop some other interests that your parents would view as more normative so that they feel able to permit you to go back to Mass. Work with them - join a sports team, take up photography, play an instrument... take the blessed middle path... it will give your parents some comfort.
[/quote]

Hmmmmmmmmmm...... I'm being stubborn on this one. except for the possibility of it being dishonest, if her parents knew that she was with her friend (and presumably her friends parent since they aren't old enough to drive) Then she would be perfectly safe. If her parents are not going to be reasonable then I think she has every right to go to Mass. Mass is the energy for the soul and NO ONE should be deprive of it.

I know of one Irish Martyr, who disobeyed her parents when it was dangerous and when her parent were forcing her to marry someone when she had a vocation. She was thinking eternal though.

Our souls are the most precious thinks to us. They are the only things we can control. I feel like you are treating her as just any ol' kid on the block Sr. Marie.
She need to obey her parent yes, but not in this situation.

Monjafutura, I know your young, but try talking to people you know about it. They will know you best and help you get to mass. People can say " just stick it out" but they aren't the ones who have to suffer. I know if I had a catholic friend who lived near me, i would go to mass with her. I don't think it is okay to just stick it out. You need to get Adults on your side who can talk to your parents about this. What ever you do, decide though prayer.

And no matter what happens you are not sinning!

Edited June 6, 2012 by Annie12

[beatitude]

Nunsense and Sister Marie have given excellent advice. I think we should all remember that we don't know the full situation here, so we should be careful about what we recommend.

Monja, one thing that you wrote in your original post really stood out for me: "All my life, I've been up and down with religion, fervent one minute, cold the next, but I would never have grown so cold again if only I didn't have that long period of time without church or anything." Presumably your parents have seen you fluctuating like this, being hot one minute, cold the next. Seeing you go from being very ambivalent and flighty around religion to being fixated on the idea of religious life must have been worrying to them, because it doesn't suggest a mature spirituality, just a young girl swinging from pole to pole.

Now you say that you 'pray somewhat'. Why only somewhat? You are in a difficult situation for any Catholic, and now is the time to deepen prayer. There are Catholics in some part of the world who hardly ever get to have Mass because they live in such remote areas and they are entirely dependent on travelling priests. There are Catholics who had to go without Mass for years, even decades, because they were in jail. They still prayed. If you were able to go to Mass, and it all suddenly lost its appeal, would you have other reasons for why you were struggling? The sermons aren't inspiring, the children are too noisy, the music isn't beautiful enough, we don't get enough Adoration? To love God - to really love him - means to pray as best we can in the situation in which we find ourselves, not pining after what we can't have now. That shows a lack of trust in him and his goodness, and an unwillingness to grow in ourselves.

Prayer in your situation means putting yourself and your loved ones in the hands of God and knowing that in doing this none of you can come to harm. It is a kind of very quiet trust. Establish a steady routine for prayer, perhaps a Bible reading, a period of silent prayer, and the Divine Mercy Chaplet - nothing too long or complicated, otherwise you won't stick to it. Have a designated time for prayer and make sure you pray even when you don't feel like it. Don't be secretive about it, but don't make a big fuss about it either - no pointedly telling your parents, "I'm going to pray now," and that kind of thing. Just make it a matter-of-fact part of your day.

[Sister Marie]

[quote name='Annie12' timestamp='1338989107' post='2441729']
Hmmmmmmmmmm...... I'm being stubborn on this one. except for the possibility of it being dishonest, if her parents knew that she was with her friend (and presumably her friends parent since they aren't old enough to drive) Then she would be perfectly safe. If her parents are not going to be reasonable then I think she has every right to go to Mass. Mass is the energy for the soul and NO ONE should be deprive of it.[/quote]

I don't mind stubborn . I'm stubborn too.

It isn't sneaking out if your parents know so I guess in your first post I misunderstood when you used that phrase that the parents would know she was with her friends parents. I still say that lying to your parents is wrong. There are people all over the world who are deprived of going to Mass because of violence, lack of priests, and just geographical barriers. It would be much more beneficial to the soul to unite the suffering of being obedient to the suffering experienced by those people to the sacrifice of the Mass through prayer, penance, and spiritual communion. We are guaranteed that Jesus comes to us in the Eucharist but He is also present in prayer and scripture.

[quote name='Annie12' timestamp='1338989107' post='2441729']
I know of one Irish Martyr, who disobeyed her parents when it was dangerous and when her parent were forcing her to marry someone when she had a vocation. She was thinking eternal though.[/quote]

Marriage is a very different topic because you are entering into a contractual union that cannot be undone... she also didn't lie. She courageously refused and took the consequences. There are a lot of differences I could continue to expound on.

[quote name='Annie12' timestamp='1338989107' post='2441729']
Our souls are the most precious thinks to us. They are the only things we can control. I feel like you are treating her as just any ol' kid on the block Sr. Marie.
She need to obey her parent yes, but not in this situation.

Monjafutura, I know your young, but try talking to people you know about it. They will know you best and help you get to mass. People can say " just stick it out" but they aren't the ones who have to suffer. I know if I had a catholic friend who lived near me, i would go to mass with her. I don't think it is okay to just stick it out. You need to get Adults on your side who can talk to your parents about this. What ever you do, decide though prayer.

And no matter what happens you are not sinning!
[/quote]

Our souls are precious that is why I am cautioning against committing a sin, the sin of lying and of disobedience. The ends (going to mass) do not justify the means (lying). You are right I'm treating her as any other child, because she is a child and children need to listen to their parents. Having a vocation does not mean you don't have to follow the same rules as everyone else. As a sister, I treat all children as if they were my own children and this is the advice I would give to any child.

Who gets to decide when it is okay for a child to disobey their parents? What is the criteria? This does not have to be harmful to this child's soul - it could be the thing that brings her to greater holiness but holiness is not a fruit of deceit. She is not sinning by obeying her parents - let her turn this into an opportunity to grow in love with the Lord and see her holiness grow with it. Feeling disconnected from him, missing the Eucharist, are not necessarily signs that one is falling away in faith - they are signs that they are growing.

Monja - I do not mean it disrespectfully when I call you a child. It is wonderful to be so passionate and so filled with life. I am a convert and a sister and when I was your age my faith caused a great deal of discord in my family. I made the mistake as a child of allowing my new found faith and my fervor in my vocation to create a large and impassible divide between myself and my family. I have been in a very similar situation and my choices, to the contrary of my advice here, caused my parents to resent both me and the Church. Had I been more diplomatic, more obedient, holier... I'm sure that we would not, all these years later, be distant and uncomfortable with one another and they might have grown closer to the Church themselves.

Again, it is not you against your parents. It is you and your parents growing towards Christ and right now you are disagreeing on how to do that.

Prayers for you!

[Gemma]

Monja--the following just came to me:

At the time you are used to attending Mass, dress up and sit by the door where you access the vehicle. If your parents find you, and ask what you're doing, say "Waiting for you to take me to church."

Relating this to people who don't have access to Mass, while commendable, is almost ridiculous. I am a parent also, and I remember my conversion at 16. My boys never acted like this. With my family, our bone of contention was because of doctrinal differences. We went to a family counselor, and he said that if they believed I was saved, let me convert.

I have told my sons, the youngest of the two graduates Saturday, that I respect this time in their lives when they are in the process of becoming more independent for the sake of their future lives, but they are still under my roof, and must still obey my rules. Monja's parents haven't stated any firm expectations for what they've done.

Monja, find a pic of a monastery or chapel on the net, and live there in your heart. Purity in the midst of immorality is your cloister right now. But, do try what I said in the first paragraph. And talk to a priest and counselor both. While done out of love, it is borderline abuse. Teens often do have to insist because of their history of flightiness.

Blessings,
Gemma

[beatitude]

[quote]At the time you are used to attending Mass, dress up and sit by the door where you access the vehicle. If your parents find you, and ask what you're doing, say "Waiting for you to take me to church."[/quote]

I don't see how acting in that kind of passive-aggressive way is going to make her parents drop their conviction that religion has done something harmful to her...or make them any more likely to take her to church.

Edited June 6, 2012 by beatitude