Can A Consecrated Virgin Become A Diocesan Hermit Or Vice Versa?

[Chiquitunga]

Praised be Jesus Christ! This question came to mind after reading canon 603 (referred to in the another thread) and then the next one on Consecrated Virginity. Maybe either Sr. Laurel, Orans, Sponsa-Christi or abrideofChrist can answer this :like:

 

Can a Consecrated Virgin ever become a Diocesan Hermit? (i.e. make a public profession of vows as a DH) or vice versa? They are different vocations .. but just wondering. Has anyone ever heard of this happening?

 

I know the rite of Consecrated Virginity (besides the rite received by some cloistered religious) includes the term "for those living in the world" so perhaps this cuts out the possibility for an already professed/consecrated Diocesan Hermit to become a CV also (although maybe they could receive the rite cloistered religious receive)

 

But could a CV discern the hermit vocation and become a Diocesan Hermit also? I have heard of at least one CV who ended up discerning religious life, but I know this is not the norm, and that Consecrated Virginity is a vocation in itself.

 

Thanks! No rush in answering! It's a busy time!! God bless!

 

p.s. I know only women can be Consecrated Virgins

Edited December 24, 2012 by Chiquitunga

[Chiquitunga]

bump :proud:

[Sponsa-Christi]

I think Sr. Wendy Beckett (the one who does the art history programs), is both a consecrated virgin and a hermit, but I believe she had a really usual vocation/discernment process.

 

To be honest, this isn’t a question that I’ve considered at any length. But in my own opinion, I think it would be possible for a consecrated virgin to become a canonical hermit at some point, since there’s nothing about consecrated virginity that would be an impediment to professing public vows.

 

However, because consecrated virginity and the eremitical life are two different things, I don’t think it would be appropriate for a woman to seek consecration as a virgin with the explicit intention of combining it with profession as a hermit. (Although, I do think that perhaps some individual consecrated virgins might legitimately discern a call to express their vocation to be a bride Christ through a life of solitary contemplative prayer, but without becoming canonical hermits.)

 

I think it might be more difficult for a hermit to become a consecrated virgin than vice-versa. The Rite of Consecration to a Life of Virginity is open to two groups of women: women living in the world (i.e., those who are unattached to a religious community), and solemnly professed nuns in communities that have a tradition of using the Rite.

 

A hermit doesn’t really fall into either of these categories. But, I suppose it might be at least theoretically possible for a female hermit to discern a call to consecrated virginity, obtain a dispensation from her vows as a hermit, and then receive the consecration of virgins.

 

And as sort of a side note, the two versions of the Rite of Consecration to a Life of Virginity (one for women living in the world and the one for cloistered nuns) are actually much more similar than many would seem to assume.

 

The only major differences between the two are: that the version for women living in the world requires the candidate to make an explicit promise of virginity at the hands of the bishop (whereas for nuns, the commitment to perpetual virginity seems to be already “included” within their religious vows); and that the version for nuns provides space for solemn religious vows to be professed in the same ceremony. Almost everything else is the same.

 

Largely in part because of this essential similarity between the two versions of the Rite, my own thought is that the phrase “living in the world” when applied to consecrated virgins doesn’t have the same kind of weight or essential meaning as it does when the same phrase is used to describe secular institutes or the laity in general. (If you’ll forgive the shameless plug, I wrote about this on my own blog here: http://www.sponsa-christi.blogspot.it/2010/07/what-does-it-mean-to-be-in-world.html)

[abrideofChrist]

While a CV can become a diocesan hermit, it would be as rare of a thing as a CV to become a nun or a sister.  The vocation is a definitive life long one, and thus only something quite extraordinary would justify either one's application to become a diocesan hermit or a member of an institute of consecrated life.  A CV is always free to live like a hermit even with a private rule and private vows... there is no real need for her to become a diocesan hermit unless again for some extraordinary reason God wanted her to become one. 

 

On the other hand, a hermit could conceivably request permission to receive the consecration and use the ritual for religious.  Why one would do so would also require prayerful discernment.  A hermit's life is more akin to cloistered life, and thus by extension the eremitic life should not pose too much of a hurdle.  I would expect that Rome would consider this favorably.

[Chiquitunga]

Praised be Jesus Christ! Thank you very much to both of you for taking the time and thought to answer this. It is most interesting and appreciated! I did not know Sr. Wendy Beckett was both of these. And now that I think of it, I believe there may be another CV like this in Indianapolis, but I'm not sure if she is officially a Diocesan Hermit. I will have to ask. But yes, I am sure it is very unusual.

 

It is good to hear both of you say, in more or less different wording, that a CV could probably legitimately discern and live a solitary contemplative life (under a private rule/vows) without officially becoming a Dioescan Hermit .. very true and good point. She is already consecrated anyway. 

 

Sponsa-Christi, thanks for the shameless plug, lol, to your post/article :smile3: I read the entire thing, along with the comments and your replies, which was very good to read! Yes, after reading that, I would completely agree with you that the term "in the world" seems to simply be a distinction between the Rite given to cloistered religious .. and to simply mean those who are not part of a religious community. Makes perfect sense to me! Very good comparison to the term "secular" used for diocesan priests too.

 

[God's Beloved]

I had sent this question to the Congregation for the Inst. of Consecrated life  in Rome  several years ago [Prot.n.SpR 862-4/2003] after I 'discovered' shockingly  that most of  the CVs in my diocese were actually following a spirituality close to Canon 603 for hermits with a Rule of Life, vows to follow the 3 evangelical counsels written in their application to the bishop --asking to receive the Rite of consecration of virgins [Canon 604]  and  calling it Single life.

 

A LOT OF CONFUSION  has been created of course regarding an already misunderstood vocation. They had NO clarity about the charism and were using it merely as a  ceremony  for some form of public commitment to create a non-canonical Single women's association  open to any single woman  whether consecrated or not.This association is  NOT according to canon 604#2. The members lead solitary life, not in community. They do not support each other to live the vocation or better serve the church but only meet  once a month for charismatic intercession.

 

My Qs was :

In  ancient Church history we find that sometimes the same person belonged to 2 orders at the same time. Is it possible for a consecrated virgin to also be a hermit and lead a diocese based life ?

According to the Roman Pontifical, the Rite of Consecration to a Life of Virginity is used for women living in the world and those in monasteries. Does 'living in the world' mean only that it is 'not in a monastery' or should it be lived strictly 'in the world' like in secular institutes ?

 

The response from the Congregation for the Inst. of Cons. life was :

While an individual can belong to two associations of the faithful one cannot readily have two vocations which involve the total consecration of their life. Perhaps a consecrated virgin might live a secluded life, more like a hermit. However, they are two distinct approaches to the consecration of life and to life-style. The life of virginity "lived in the world" gives public witness in everyday life, in some self-supporting work and in her service to the Church. It is not quite the same as the style of a secular institute because the virgin's consecration is public, yet it is secular in the sense that she is not a religious.

 

 

 

 

[Sister_Laurel]

Early in the history of canons 603 and 604 it was not unusual (unfortunately) for dioceses to offer consecration as a virgin living in the world to some seeking profession as a diocesan hermit. It was seen as somehow less problematical and dioceses were reluctant to create hermits. Thus some people seeking to become diocesan hermits became CV's. (My own diocese offered to consecrate me in this way when they revealed they had decided to profess no one under canon 603 due to a bad experience with it in the recent past. I refused because of the difference in the vocations.) Beyond this some scholars actually wrote about canon 603 as the male equivalent of canon 604! Never mind the two canons refer to vastly different lives, one lived in the world and one marked by stricter separation from the world (this is the  clearest difference between the two)! Today the Church is clearer about the different, even contrasting natures of these two vocations and they demand that neither be used as a stopgap when the diocese is unwilling to accept a person's public commitment to the other vocation.

 

That said, it is possible for a person to move from one vocation to the other so long as the discernment process is careful and conscious. A hermit might discover that her call to solitude was a temporary thing rather than a life vocation and thus seek dispensation from her vows and consecration as a virgin living in the world. A Consecrated Virgin might discover she was truly called to a contemplative and solitary vocation. What is not acceptable is using one as a stopgap or fallback vocation when one cannot gain admission to public commitment to the other. Similarly unacceptable is a discernment process which is slipshod or inadequately clear. I personally suspect that today dioceses would be more than usually cautious about either consecrating or professing someone under one of these canons when they have already been consecrated or professed under the other. Some canonists argue that it is not appropriate to add the consecration of canon 604 to that of c 603 (analogously to religious receiving this consecration at solemn vows); they say that they are both complete consecrations and should not be used in this way. Others argue the opposite for those who find there relationship with Christ to be spousal or nuptial. So, today it is possible to move from one vocation to the other, but not particularly likely nor likely to be found acceptable by the person's diocese.

 

Sincerely,

Sister Laurel M O'Neal, Er Dio

Stillsong Hermitage

Diocese of Oakland

http://notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com

[God's Beloved]

Perhaps the  EFFECT of the Rite of consecration  may vary depending on the intention of the recepient , the bishop and the local church community regarding the kind of life the CV will lead . I have elaborated on  what I think could be the effects of the Rite of consecration to a life of virginity [ canon 604]   here  http://ocvnewevangelisation.blogspot.in/2011/10/spiritual-wealth-in-prayer-of.html     and more details  https://www.dropbox.com/s/s6mnfiq1ux814mg/3.%20article%20on%20OrdoVirginum%20VJTR%202011.pdf

The pdf article was published in a theological journal , next to a talk of the Apostolic Nuncio. I think the Church is open to my perspective of the vocation.

 

1. If the Candidate, the Bishop and the local Church community  have the intention  that the CV should be consecrated to God, mystically espoused to  Jesus Christ and Dedicated to the service of the Church -- according to canon 604 and the ancient theology of the rite  and  she is  given to her  diocese , then I think the Sacramentality  of her vocation as  virgin, bride , mother  will shine in her life. It will also  produce a well-spring in  the seal of consecration , that pours out compassion with a truly maternal impact on the community thru prayer and charity or other services. This I believe is the specific grace of this vocation lived in its strict identity and mission.

 

2. When this Rite of consecration to a life of virginity is conferred on women leading monastic life ,  due to strict separation from the world , the Sacramentality  as virgin, bride, mother will  either be absent or expressed only as a community. Hence  monastics receiving the rite are normally not called consecrated virgins.

 

3.This would be similar in case of a Hermit who continues living in strict separation from the world and receives this consecration , or a member of a Secular institute who uses discretion regarding her consecrated status .

 

The Sacramentaility [ being an eschatological image of the heavenly bride and the life to come when the church will at last be fully untied with Christ her bridegroom and  the communion of saints]  is  THE  Mission of the CV in the church and the world.She is 100 per cent  consecrated / set apart  to reflect the Church  who is Virgin, Bride, Mother in her being and doing.

 

Hence I think there might be gradations  in the effect of the Rite of consecration to a life of virginity depending upon various factors like WHO receives the rite and  which vocational  lifestyle  she is consecrated / set apart for.

 

 

 

 

[Sister_Laurel]

Perhaps the  EFFECT of the Rite of consecration  may vary depending on the intention of the recepient , the bishop and the local church community regarding the kind of life the CV will lead . I have elaborated on  what I think could be the effects of the Rite of consecration to a life of virginity [ canon 604]   here  http://ocvnewevangelisation.blogspot.in/2011/10/spiritual-wealth-in-prayer-of.html     and more details  https://www.dropbox.com/s/s6mnfiq1ux814mg/3.%20article%20on%20OrdoVirginum%20VJTR%202011.pdf

The pdf article was published in a theological journal , next to a talk of the Apostolic Nuncio. I think the Church is open to my perspective of the vocation.

 

1. If the Candidate, the Bishop and the local Church community  have the intention  that the CV should be consecrated to God, mystically espoused to  Jesus Christ and Dedicated to the service of the Church -- according to canon 604 and the ancient theology of the rite  and  she is  given to her  diocese , then I think the Sacramentality  of her vocation as  virgin, bride , mother  will shine in her life. It will also  produce a well-spring in  the seal of consecration , that pours out compassion with a truly maternal impact on the community thru prayer and charity or other services. This I believe is the specific grace of this vocation lived in its strict identity and mission.

 

2. When this Rite of consecration to a life of virginity is conferred on women leading monastic life ,  due to strict separation from the world , the Sacramentality  as virgin, bride, mother will  either be absent or expressed only as a community. Hence  monastics receiving the rite are normally not called consecrated virgins.

 

3.This would be similar in case of a Hermit who continues living in strict separation from the world and receives this consecration , or a member of a Secular institute who uses discretion regarding her consecrated status .

 

The Sacramentaility [ being an eschatological image of the heavenly bride and the life to come when the church will at last be fully untied with Christ her bridegroom and  the communion of saints]  is  THE  Mission of the CV in the church and the world.She is 100 per cent  consecrated / set apart  to reflect the Church  who is Virgin, Bride, Mother in her being and doing.

 

Hence I think there might be gradations  in the effect of the Rite of consecration to a life of virginity depending upon various factors like WHO receives the rite and  which vocational  lifestyle  she is consecrated / set apart for.

 

My sense is Rome has already addressed the idea that there are "gradations" in consecration BY God. As I recall (I would need to find the discussion to be sure) the question was raised by the suggestion that folks with vows (hermits) were somehow more completely consecrated than those without vows (CV's). Still, the point is applicable here I think. The idea was rejected. One is either set apart by and for God in the consecrated state or one is not. No gradations.

 

best,

Sister Laurel M O'Neal, Er DIo

Stillsong Hermitage

Diocese of Oakland

http:notesfromstillsong.blogspot.com

Edited December 29, 2012 by SRLAUREL

[God's Beloved]

My sense is Rome has already addressed the idea that there are "gradations" in consecration BY God. As I recall (I would need to find the discussion to be sure) the question was raised by the suggestion that folks with vows (hermits) were somehow more completely consecrated than those without vows (CV's). Still, the point is applicable here I think. The idea was rejected. One is either set apart by and for God in the consecrated state or one is not. No gradations.

 

Dear Sr Laurel, 

 

It seems I did not express clearly what I am hinting. Please let me elaborate my perspective.

 

It is true that the Second Vatican Council  removed the concept of  degree or gradation of consecration. Even the issue of Solemn or Simple vows is now left to the internal tradition of each institute or vocation. The New Code of Canon law 1983  specifies the equality of dignity of all the baptized in the call to holiness.

 

What I propose is gradations  in the effect of the Rite of consecration to a life of virginity [ the Sacramentality as virgin, bride,mother ]. I'm not discussing  gradation of consecration in comparing two different rites , one for  a life of virginity , another for a life of the silence of solitude , or a profession of vows in a religious institute  etc.

 

The term 'consecration' itself implies involvement of the Whole person for the entire lifetime , being set apart for a particular calling or purpose of God. Whether thru the sacrament of marriage or   holy orders, or consecration as a hermit  or virgin or widow  or  to  the charism of a religious institute etc.  each ideally should involve a total consecration. However  real life is not so neat.  A married person may be living 70 per cent as a married person and 30 per cent like a hermit in solitude. A member of a religious inst. may be devoted 70 per cent to the purpose of her institute and 30 per cent  to  being a leaven in the temporal matters of the world. In real life there is often some overlap of vocations.

 

Similarly a consecrated virgin  is called to  be 100 per cent  set apart  for the Sacramentality as virgin, bride, mother  but  if she  lives in a monastery  or is a hermit , although in God's eyes  she may be as close to Him and as holy as a  CV living her vocation strictly ,  the Sacramentality  will be greatly reduced perhaps.  The full effect  of the seal impressed on her soul  may not manifest itself according to the purpose of the Rite.

 

 Psychological theories explain how a  Clear Identity   has several positive effects in ones life and  releases a lot of potential.  If  a CV is focused on her  vocation  , the potential of  cons. virginity will be released in her life.  If she mixes up  two or more  vocational identities, she may still be  very close to God  but  she will not be able to live  her consecration fully. In her own life  there can be gradations of the effect of the seal of consecration.

 

 

If I'm still not clear - I'll elaborate further. Actually  such a discussion helps a lot to think aloud . Thanks !

[Nunsense]

Pardon me if I am confusing things here because it may just be that I am not understanding fully what God's Beloved means when she says

 

'The full effect of the seal impressed on her soul may not manifest itself according to the purpose of the Rite.'

 

I was under the assumption though that only certain of the sacraments actually put a seal on the soul and these are Baptism, Holy Orders and Marriage. Even the other sacraments do not do this.

 

Can you please explain what you mean? Thank you.

[Chiquitunga]

Good question, nunsense, and I believe it is just Baptism and Holy Orders.

 

edit: I believe Confirmation also, http://www.fisheaters.com/confirmation.html  I thought that was just an addition to the seal given at Baptism, but it seems to be a new seal given from the description there

Edited December 30, 2012 by Chiquitunga

[andibc]

repeat

Edited December 30, 2012 by andibc

[BarbTherese]

I would be very interested too in the response to THIS POST

 

Confirmation also has a seal

[Nunsense]

I just checked online and I was in error. The three that leave a mark or seal on the soul are Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Orders.

 

Sacramental charactermeans a special supernatural and ineffaceable mark, or seal, or distinction, impressed upon the soul by each of the Sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and Holy orders; and it is by reason of this ineffaceable mark that none of these three sacraments may be administered more than once to the same person. This is express Catholic doctrine declared both in the Council of Florence (Sess. ult., Decret. Eugenii IV, §5) and in the Council of Trent (Sess. VII, can. ix, and Sess. XXIII, cap. iv and can. iv).

[God's Beloved]

Thanks for the question !

 

The Rite of Consecration to a life of Virginity has a 'prayer of consecration' which dates back to the Leonine sacramentary and is attributed to Pope Leo I [4th century].  This is the heart of the rite. All other liturgical  elements have varied from time to time. According to the ancient tradition of the rite ,for the first 12 centuries it was considered one of the twelve sacraments. Later the list was reduced to seven. The consecration of virgins is considered a Sacramental. There  could be several reasons for this :

 

a] SACRAMENTS  are of Divine institution  and  are God's action  thru human ministers. Hence even a child  can receive the grace of baptism , confirmation   simply by being the recepient of the sacrament. Every sacrament involves immersion in the Paschal mystery of Christ and  in some way signifies this mystery , especially the mystery of the union of Christ and the Church. e.g. in the sacrament of matrimony, the couple who are the ministers of the grace of the sacrament to each other , signify Christ and the Church to each other. The  'sign' element  is prominent . 

 

b] SACRAMENTALS  are  instituted by the Church and depend on the intention of the Church  regarding their effect. Hence since the 12th century the Rite of consecration to a life of virginity is counted among the Sacramentals.

In the consecration of virgins, tradition holds that there is a real [ not merely symbolic] mystical marriage[not betrothal] between Christ and the virgin. In this case the virgin cannot be a minister of grace to Christ ! Hence the grace of mystical marriage is  completely passive  .[ akin to the theology of mystical marriage according to various mystics like St John of the Cross etc.]  It is God's action through the very words of the prayer of consecration [constitutive sacramental] . The virgin should have an active  intention to 'receive' this grace. After the consecration she is given the title Bride of Christ which is reserved to the Church of Christ. Hence  this mystical marriage becomes a reality of the Union between Christ and the Church rather than a  mere sign.

 

Another reason why the consecration of virgins is not a Sacrament  is because an infant incapable of giving consent for marriage will not become a consecrated virgin if the 'prayer of consecration' is  recited by a bishop over her.  The consecration of a virgin involves  the intentions of  the bishop [as her spiritual father] , the diocesan community and  her own intention.

 

In the decree passed by the Congregation for Divine Worship on May 31,1970 , it is  written,

 

The rite of consecration to a life of virginity is counted among the most precious treasures in the Roman liturgy.........................The Church from the earliest ages, as the Fathers attest has kept the practice of putting its seal through a consecratory prayer upon the devout and exacting resolve of virgins.

 

 

Thus this Rite was revived  in the Post Vatican Council II  context  as it was in the early centuries of the church. Vatican II left  the seriousness [ simple or solemn] of vows or consecration  to the Internal tradition of each vocation.According to tradition the virgin is irrevocably espoused to Christ. If she married she was considered an adulteress. The consecration is said to be permanent, leaving an indelible mark on the soul / a seal of consecration[ like the dedication of a church building].  According to my theology  since it is the Church that has instituted this sacramental , it has the power to change its  'intention'  thus revising  this stand if necessary in individual cases.

 

I see possibility of 3 levels of consecration depending on intention of the virgin,  the community and the bishop of the diocese :

 

1] Copper : If only the virgin is committed to give her 100 per cent  to Christ  , it is like she writing ' I Love Jesus' on her  heart/soul. This is the situation when she lives a resolution  to remain a virgin for sake of her love for Christ [ as in private vows/ commitment]. Here she is consecrating herself , setting herself apart for Him . The consecration is Uni-dimentional. But this copper could be more precious to Jesus than someone with gold ! because it involves her full self-gift to Him.

 

2] Silver :  If  this virgin applies to the diocesan bishop - for the consecration to a life of virginity  and receives the Rite of consecration , but  they have the intention that  this is  merely a favour done to her by the Church authorities , so that she can enjoy the grace of marriage with  Christ for her personal  spiritual consolation and maybe even live it privately -----then this  is like  the  words of the 'prayer of consecration'   drawing an image  of  Christ  on her heart and soul . It is two-dimentional seal  like an approval rubber stamp on a piece of paper  that mentions  her marriage with Christ.

 

3] Gold : If  the virgin, the bishop and the diocesan community truly have the intention that she should be consecrated to God, mystically espoused to Christ and Dedicated to the service of the church  as a  virgin, bride and mother ,  then the consecration  imprints a three-dimensional seal on her heart and soul .  It is like a real wellspring from which flows out 'rivers of living water'

 

Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’ [ John 7:38 ]

 

This is a well-spring of compassion with a truly maternal impact on the community thru prayer and charity or other services. This I believe is the specific grace of this vocation lived in its strict identity and mission. To put it  clearly,  it is  the consummation of the marriage and spiritual motherhood !

 

The three-dimensional seal / the well could become dry or the water become stagnant  or it be filled with the dirt of sin , thus unable to be a channel of God's grace to the church and the world.

 

 

I  think theology  on this Rite has varied potential. It could lead to an entirely new form in today's world.  The effect of the consecration 'to a life of virginity'  is said to be permanent  according to tradition. But  since it is a sacramental  instituted by the Church , I think  the Holy Father could  decide to pass a decree stating ," ..........for consecration of virgins  from this time onwards, the Church does not intend it to be  irrevocable . A dispensation allowing a virgin to enter the sacrament of matrimony could be given in grave circumstances. "  . This may not change her status as a bride of Christ , but she would be freed from a permanent consecration to live as a virgin.

 

There is lot of room for discussion on  the theology of the rite. But my personal opinion is that any  human being , even an unbaptised follower of Christ ,  may  reach the highest and deepest levels of holiness thru  Union with God , while a consecrated virgin may not manifest the desired  well-spring of compassion , the fruit of the Holy Spirit  in her life.  We can become too proud  of being  Bride of Christ and actually  miss the crown.

 

 

More details in my pdf article :

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s6mnfiq1ux814mg/3.%20article%20on%20OrdoVirginum%20VJTR%202011.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

[BarbTherese]

Consecrata

"The consecrated life thus becomes one of the tangible seals which the Trinity impresses upon history, so that people can sense with longing the attraction of divine beauty...."..........................

................."because "one leaves God to serve God".erving the poor is an act of evangelization and, at the same time, a seal of Gospel authenticity and a catalyst for permanent conversion in the consecrated life"

______________

 

Hence there is the seal of Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Orders which is an indelible seal on the soul as I understand it and the only indelible seals on the soul.  Obviously, it seems to me, if The Church can change by decree the consecration to virginity from irrevocable to not necessarily permanent, there is no indelible seal on the soul.  There is the seal of Confession.  There is the "tanglible seals" on history and "seal of The Gospel" as in Vita Consecrata above.  Seems to me that The Church uses the word "seal" using various qualifications changing its meaning  and quite possibly more than I have mentioned.  In other words, "seal" can mean many things and needs to be qualified.  I understand what The Church means in each instance I have quoted above, but what you are stating, GB, is new to me and I can be slow in catching up with the news secular and Catholic. 

 

I couldn't find a mention of any sort of seal on the soul in the consecrated  to virginity vocation.  There may be a mention and therefore a reliable source reference, I couldn't find it and if there is one, what kind of seal is it and does it state there is a seal on the soul?  As I have always understood things, only Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Orders put a seal on the soul - and an indelible one.   It gets all very very confusing VERY!  At times I am confused in some threads as to whether I am reading the opinion and concepts of the poster  or whether a text with sound and reliable authority is being quoted - links are always a great help to put quotations into their context and putting a seal of authenticity of source on the quoted.  Honestly, as a very ordinary Catholic, I find these discussions terribly confusing and as long as I am never asked related questions, no harm is done - or is it?

 

Is your post, GB, something that is under discussion theologically but not yet determined by The Church officially?  Or is it official Church teaching?

 

Bishops can disagree, theologians can disagree, and I am sure those educated in the various schools in The Church can disagree. Such are very important exchanges to my mind (in non essentials, liberty) and always an indication that aspects of truth are still struggling for the light of day - and if necessary The Church will cast the casting vote and settle matters and advise us accordingly.  Sometimes, it seems to me what one does believe and does not believe just might depend on who one is reading or to whom one is listening. I am just confused and so are I know a lot of very ordinary Catholics on many matters when once very sure of what to believe and what not to believe.  Their Faith is no longer on sure foundations and they question, they doubt. They can even turn away - it is all too hard, too confusing, too complex.

 

Small steps to a very big objective.

 

 

Edited December 30, 2012 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

Quoting God's Beloved : "Hence this mystical marriage becomes a reality of the Union between Christ and the Church rather than a mere sign."

 

 

However on the USACV website there is an Introduction to the of the Congregation for Divine Worship on 31 May 1970 (I am yet to find the decree itself nor have I read the entire Introduction).  I read this scanning the Introduction 

 

http://consecratedvirgins.org/prep-intro ........................."As expressed in the Roman Pontifical, the consecrated virgin is to be a 'spouse of Christ,' a sign of Christ's Virgin Bride, the Church." ....................."The Church is the bride of Christ. This title of the Church was given by the fathers and doctors of the church to those like you who speak to us of the world to come, where there is no marrying or giving in marriage. You are a sign of the great mystery of salvation, proclaimed at the beginning of human history and fulfilled in the marriage covenant between Christ and his Church."

 

 

 

And 'spouse of Christ' is in inverted commas.  The Church is The Bride of Christ and The Church is all the baptized. 

 

Confusing!

 

Central elements of the Consecration to Virginity can be found here: http://consecratedvirgins.org/elements

 

And more confusion in comparison to your post, GB.  I only wish I could write differently but I am really confused although feel a little more secure after reading Church texts.  At least part of the Introduction anyway and all of the central elements of the CV.

 

Having not read this whole thread by a very long shot and coming in very late in the piece indeed, I went back over the last few posts and I see that GB and Sr Lauren have exchanges where things do not seem to be in complete agreement on points that are quite vague to me, just a very ordinary Catholic.  Seemingly exchanges by two individuals educated in some school or other in The Church and I know that Sr Lauren is although I have forgotten the exact title.  I dont know if GB has some sort of qualification in The Church and not much info on her Profile.

 

Confused - and not at all hard to do! :)

 

Edited December 30, 2012 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

Apologies - It is Sr. Laurel, not Sr. Lauren

[God's Beloved]

Thanks Barbara for being very candid in expressing your thoughts! Much appreciated.

 

I have stated in the signature section The ideas expressed in the posts are my own and based on prayer and searching for the truth . We need to reflect on them with discernment and possibly with sharing of opinions , healthy debate if necessary. This will help to refine the ideas and conform them to God’s will in the ongoing search

 

1] The Rite of consecration to a life of virginity is very ancient . It is the early Church Fathers [ all men of course] who theologized on its effects. It was considered one of the 12 sacraments until the  Council of Trent in the 12th century which clarified that there are only 7 sacraments instituted by Christ. By that time the use of the rite of consecration of virgins  was diminishing and few monastic orders continued the tradition. Hence the Church may have not felt it necessary to update the theology of the rite. The ancient sacrament-type theology continued.

 

The Second Vatican Council of this century revived the Rite for women not living in monasteries [ as it was in the ancient Church]. Women have started studying theology only in recent decades. The Rite indicated by Canon 604  is ancient but still searching for a theological update according to the spirit of Vat II . Hence  to maintain some continuity in Charism and  Internal tradition of this vocation , it becomes necessary to begin from the ancient theology which  considered it  permanent, irrevocable to the extent that fallen virgins were even given the death penalty for adultery. With the ancient tradition as a starting point, I have proposed a relatively lenient  understanding of the consecration according to the signs of the times /post Vat II approach , thus suggesting the need of a Pastoral revision of its irrevocability so that younger women are not scared of this vocation.

 

2] Yes, there is no formal definition by the Church in this regard , because there are just a few thousand CVs in the world. Canon 604 is left open-ended , to allow the Holy Spirit to inspire how it will develop or  which direction it will take. There are very few CVs  and other theologians  seriously reflecting on this  rite and its effects and by God's grace we seem to have come together on Phatmass. I REALLY PRAISE AND THANK GOD FOR THIS !  

Regarding myself,  I encountered Jesus  at 14 when I was a hindu  and received a  prophetic / spiritual gift  of writing poems and articles . I am a qualified doctor, counseling psychologist and  have studied B .Th equivalent  theology formally  and my articles have been published in International theological journals  since I was a student . I have indeed approached  the Congregation for the Inst. of Consecrated life for a formal definition regarding several aspects of the theology & vocation of CV . Hopefully  there will be a response  soon. Until then I am inclined to believe  that the Church is open to the theology of CV proposed by me  and will appreciate discussion of various perspectives to  see the Sensus Fidelium.

 

 

In yr 2003 I sent following Questions to the Congr for the Inst. of Cons. life in Rome :

 

Canon 604#1 says that we are consecrated by the Bishop. How exactly is this different from the Prayer of consecration in the Rite for the Profession of Religious Women ? In several theological articles it is said  that in the Cons. of virgins what is specific is the charismatic element in the Rite whereas in the Rite of Religious Profession what is specific is the ascetic element or the Profession of vows according to the Constitution of the Institute .............Since the Consecration takes place by the very words in the Prayer of Consecration, the Information provided by the United States Association of Consecrated Virgins says that it is Irrevocable. They say there can be no dispensation from the commitment ...........in case later in life the virgin feels a call to marriage. How far is this true ?

 

Their response : Prot.n. SpR 862-4/2003 was :

 

........ it is to be hoped that as the Rite is better known,and is studied both by the candidate and by the consecrating bishop, it will be clear that the candidate's proposito expresses her intent and the solemn prayer of the Bishop consecrates her. This is distinct from the rite of religious profession in which the profession of the evangelical counsels- all other canonical requirements being in place--consecrates the candidate to God[c.654]

 

It would be true to say that the Consecration effected through the Rite is permanent. For this reason some Bishops require periods of time with a private vow of chastity during the formation time, before accepting a candidate for the Consecration.We have , however, received the question of a possible dispensation from the proposito and from the obligations arising from the Consecration. This while regrettable, would seem would be within the competency of the Diocesan Bishop. There has not been any formal definition in this regard.

 

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The tradition in the Church regarding Permanent nature of the Consecration of a virgin  has continued. The  theology of a seal of consecration used in the early Church when it was considered a sacrament , may  require a broader interpretation in Post Vat II times , in a more metaphorical sense to make tangible  what  is effected by the Rite. The consecration does imply a 'gift of the Holy Spirit'. The seal on the soul caused by the Sacraments may not be a literal seal  that can be seen or its image  painted .  We call it seal to help human understanding.  Similarly the mystical marriage effected by the Rite is  said to be real , not merely a sign. The  ancient theology of the consecration of virgins  influences the theology of the sacrament of marriage and could be its antecedent .  In the sacrament of marriage the marital bond is sealed by God  when the marriage is consummated with the consent of both persons.  This may be applied to the consecration of virgins .

 

This being said , I hope you are aware  that the consecration of virgins and the profession of religious are  two different paradigms and  the permanence of consecration of virgins does not apply to the profession of religious vows. If the Church passes a decree stating that  consecrated virgins can receive a dispensation to enter  marriage with another , it may not mean that the permanence of  mystical marriage with Christ is denied.  I've elaborated in my article.

 

 

Regarding  authentic sources , confusing  information  by CV associations in various countries  etc. etc. please give me little time to respond  since this post has become heavy ! Shall  go through my archives. I think this  site allows us to put attachments. I'll try to do that or put the links if they are available on the internet. In the meantime if any reader or CV already has  it handy, please feel free to post it . Thanks.