reyb Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Your discussion ends here.... Trinity is a mystery. Do not touch it otherwise, it will become illogical. Same thing in Eucharist. Do not bother to test it because, it cannot be detected by sense and understanding. Believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StMichael Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 When I did RCIA, this question would always come up. The analogy I would use was fire, it purifies, it lights the way, it provides warmth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 When I did RCIA, this question would always come up. The analogy I would use was fire, it purifies, it lights the way, it provides warmth. Three uses. Three functions. Getting really dangerously close to modalism, IMO. Any time we simplify too much as regards the Trinity, we tend to fall into heresy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 There are many logics; existing, and to be invented (uncovered, if you prefer). As a paraconsistent alogician I find the doctrine of the Trinity to be too logical. Formal systems are idols; reality is paradox and contradiction is unreality. Amen. Wait, is this one of the serious boards? My bad. I'm out of practice. Apologies for the rubbish post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Consider this: All things are possible to God and He looks upon creation from a stand-point outside of time, beyond creation which He made. Now - He sees YOU: as you are born, as you are a child, a man-woman, and elderly person all co-jointly. Say God was to pick you out of creation: three times. Once as a child, once as an adult and once as an elder. Now we have YOU, present at the same existence as a child, an adult and an elder one beside each other. Now if I asked you three times: are yu entirely yourself? What would the child reply? The adult? The elder? Obviously they would reply that they are entirely themselves, fully themselves, yet each is distinct and different. A weak analogy of the Trinity - but let's apply this to God. Now God is beyond time and creation. The Father sits in eternity outside of time and creation itslef - forever there and unchanging. Since all is possible to God, He CAN enter His cretion I but would not leave eternity to do so. Enter God the son, subject (by choice) to the rules and laws of creation, fully God, inside of creation but yet remaining outside. Different than God the Father but of the same nature, essence and divinity. Where is the Holy Ghost? Since God the Father is outside of time and creation, a third precense is needed to actually carry out and push creation to its fullness and into reality. Thus it MUST be so that there are three persons in God, each fully God, each distinct and separate but each entire God as a single person and three precense outside and within creation. God the Father is the artist who commands the drawing, the Son is Himself entering the drawing, the Spirit is the pen by which the drawing is made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little2add Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Three uses. Three functions. Getting really dangerously close to modalism, IMO. Any time we simplify too much as regards the Trinity, we tend to fall into heresy. Crying Heresy seems a little rash for a casual discussion about the logic of the Trinity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StMichael Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Three uses. Three functions. Getting really dangerously close to modalism, IMO. Any time we simplify too much as regards the Trinity, we tend to fall into heresy. Last thing I would ever want. My hope, as well as other religious teachers, was to get a closer understanding of the Holy Trinity. Do you believe I fell into heresy with this loose analogy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Last thing I would ever want. My hope, as well as other religious teachers, was to get a closer understanding of the Holy Trinity. Do you believe I fell into heresy with this loose analogy? Yeah, I think that analogy would be characterized as Sabellian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Heretics! All of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Heretics! All of you. Edited September 2, 2015 by Didacus I wanted to edit my post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Heretics! All of you. Heresy, Heresy, Heresy...man landed on the moon....NASA’s New Horizons was already in the vicinity of planet Pluto, and still you are shouting ‘Heretics....’ -------------------------------- Who invented that God is triune? (Read this... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentinus_(Gnostic)). In the fourth-century, Marcellus of Ancyra declared that the idea of the Godhead existing as three hypostases (hidden spiritual realities) came from Plato through the teachings of Valentinus,[9] who is quoted as teaching that God is three hypostases and three prosopa (persons) called the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit: "Now with the heresy of the Ariomaniacs, which has corrupted the Church of God... These then teach three hypostases, just as Valentinus the heresiarch first invented in the book entitled by him 'On the Three Natures'. For he was the first to invent three hypostases and three persons of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and he is discovered to have filched this from Hermesand Plato." [10] Since Valentinus had used the term hypostases, his name came up in the Arian disputes in the fourth century. Marcellus of Ancyra, who was a staunch opponent of Arianism but also denounced the belief in God existing in three hypostases as heretical (and was later condemned for his views)[dubious – discuss][citation needed], attacked his opponents (On the Holy Church, 9) by linking them to Valentinus: "Valentinus, the leader of a sect, was the first to devise the notion of three subsistent entities (hypostases), in a work that he entitled On the Three Natures. For, he devised the notion of three subsistent entities and three persons — father, son, and holy spirit."[11] ---------------------------------------------------------------- True witnesses never teach that God is a trinity. Christ is the mystery of God and not the Trinity. Seek the truth from God himself and you will realize why Apostle Paul said ‘ ....yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. (1 Cor 8:6). Edited September 2, 2015 by reyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Heresy, Heresy, Heresy...man landed on the moon....NASA’s New Horizons was already in the vicinity of planet Pluto, and still you are shouting ‘Heretics....’ -------------------------------- Who invented that God is triune? (Read this... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentinus_(Gnostic)). ---------------------------------------------------------------- True witnesses never teach that God is a trinity. Christ is the mystery of God and not the Trinity. Seek the truth from God himself and you will realize why Apostle Paul said ‘ ....yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. (1 Cor 8:6). Is that what the Metatron told you when you left your body and then watched it flame like a burning bush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Alberto Rivera Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 The GODHEAD makes complete sense... GOD is infinite... All powerful. In this realm of infinite it is very possible for GOD whom is one to separate Himself into three co-eternal persons. GOD is love in order for HIM to love He needs some one to love... Jesus Talks about this And the Son of God declares concerning Himself: “The Lord possessed Me in the beginning of His way, before His works of old. I was set up from everlasting.... When He appointed the foundations of the earth: then I was by Him, as one brought up with Him: and I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him.” Proverbs 8:22“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.” John 1:1, 2-30 . “By Him were all things created, ... whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him.” Colossians 1:16 In referring to Jesus Christ. And the Holy Spirit which is also God represents Jesus Christ on earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) Is that what the Metatron told you when you left your body and then watched it flame like a burning bush? Are you asking me if the Metatron told me that Christ is the mystery of God? You are really kidding me. Apostle Paul said .. ‘.... in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.’ (Col 2:2-4). Therefore, it is very clear ‘Christ is the mystery of God’. But, where in the scripture that says ‘The Holy Trinity is the mystery of God?’ It seems you do not read your bible more seriously and intensely than that of your Catechism. Edited September 3, 2015 by reyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) Are you asking me if the Metatron told me that Christ is the mystery of God? You are really kidding me. Apostle Paul said .. ‘.... in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.’ (Col 2:2-4). Therefore, it is very clear ‘Christ is the mystery of God’. But, where in the scripture that says ‘The Holy Trinity is the mystery of God?’ It seems you do not read your bible more seriously and intensely than that of your Catechism. Ouch. That really hurts reyb. Especially considering how much I and other people on this forum value your opinion. Since you have quoted Colossians in support of your nonsense - how do you know that Paul wrote Colossians? How do you know that a person named Paul existed, and how do you know that Colossians is true and not just a nice fictional story that Paul decided to create one day? Is that something that the Metatron told you during your self-professed out-of-body experience when you saw Jesus and saw your body on fire like a burning bush? Did the Metatron introduce you to Paul and provide you with an original draft of his letter to inspect? Edited September 4, 2015 by Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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